how many divided columns?

[Jimbo]

Question: I am aware of the fact that, beore the final battle on Last Stand Hill, Custer divided his columns into 3 separate commands that I am aware of, Thus: McDougle's Pack train, Reno's command and Beteen's command, but didn't he again divide the remnants of his command, sending another detachment column of troopers to attack the village separately while he proceeded on to Last Stand Hill, just before Custer's final, fatal engagement on L. S. H. ? If so, who did Custer place in command of those troopers and where did they eventually wind up? I'm very confused on this issue- help!

[Tricia]

jimbo said:

Question: I am aware of the fact that, beore the final battle on Last Stand Hill, Custer divided his columns into 3 separate commands that I am aware of, Thus: McDougle's Pack train, Reno's command and Beteen's command, but didn't he again divide the remnants of his command, sending another detachment column of troopers to attack the village separately while he proceeded on to Last Stand Hill, just before Custer's final, fatal engagement on L. S. H. ? If so, who did Custer place in command of those troopers and where did they eventually wind up? I'm very confused on this issue- help!

I think this IS confusing. But I've heard it told a couple of different ways (now what is so surprising about that when it comes to Custer). Somewhere abouts Cedar Coulee, Custer further divided his battalion into two smaller ones--one led by Yates, comprised of companies E and F. Supposedly, it was this group that "attacked" the village at MTC, with another battalion, led by Keogh that provided some support: L and I companies. Now, I think the real confusion is where C ended up ... were they attached to the HQ staff as many believe? I think Walt will be the best responder to that. Of course, there is question whether Custer and HQ went down MTC as well--I think some writers do make a case for him remaining at NCR, overseeing the action, not unlike a Crook kind of visual, though it hardly seems like the Custer we know and love.

I've probably just added to the confusion.

Regards,
Leyton McLean
(BTW--thanks for the gun answers)

[Walt Cross]

Leyton;
No, I think you got pretty close to the accepted account. Personally I think Custer rode down Medicine Tail Coulee to MTC Ford. Like you, I just don't think he would remain behind, he wanted to see things with his own eyes.

As for Co C, I believe they remained with Keogh and Calhoun to form the right wing with Keogh of course in command. Co L was the hindmost company and received the attention of the warriors right off the bat. There are indications that Custer's entire battalion came under fire in MTC before the split into two wings. Co L was in contact almost constantly from that point on.

Walt

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the prompt reply, Mr. McLean. I now understand why I didn't previously understand. The chronological order of this complex chain of events that occurred after Yates was given command during this particular episode of the whole progression of events prior to and during the actual battle is mired in controversy and speculation due to the fact that just recently occured to me, since all of the participants of this particular action were killed, there were no witnesses to put this on record. Thus, this being the case, this topic is subject to conjecture. I think that your explanation is very plausable and logically thought out and stated and I can see why I was so confused about it, due to its complexity. Now I can rest well. I appreciate your indulgence.......

[Tony]

I am new to this forum, but have studied this battle for many years--as for splitting up his column at MTC--bare in mind that Custer had just sent Martini to find and bring back Benteen (famous last order to Benteen). Many historians assert that Custer than split his command into two wings--and sent one down to the ford, and the other towards last stand hill. Now, if you just sent for Benteen to come quick( Cook telling Martin exactly were to go and ordering him to return with Benteen--if no danger were present) with ammon and men, would you now leave the area and ride further north? I doubt this! Other historians feel that the company/ies sent to the ford were sent as a sham attack to draw the warriors off Reno. Again I seriously doubt this--Custer had no knowledge that Reno was retreating or needed that kind of assistance. As far as he knew, everthing was working to his benifit (Reno holding the warriors attention so that Custer could flank attack). Don't forget, he also was encouraged when his brother Boston road through with no problem and told him that Benteen was on the way and not far behind. No, I feel that Custer may have sent a company to the ford to hold it and or to survey it for a possible crossing into the village as soon as Benteen arrived. HE WAS WAITING FOR BENTEEN--you don't send for additrional men and than leave the area before they arrive. I think Custer realized thinks were not going well when he looked south for Benteen on the east side of the river, and saw warriors approaching instead of Benteen--that was the first time he realized he was in danger--he then saw the response from the village toward the ford and gave a bugle sound for that company to return and reunite with his. He than proceeds to Calhoun Hill!

[Walt Cross]

Tony;
He left the right wing under Keogh (Co C, I, L) to continue north across Luce Ridge to Calhoun Hill. Co L had a visual on MTC and Cedar Coulee, Benteen was supposed to linkup with Co L. Meantime the left wing under Yates proceeded down MTC to the ford with the intent of crossing the LBH and attacking the village, thus taking the pressure off Reno.

However, once he arrived at the ford he discovered the non-combatants were not there (they were his objective, that and relieving Reno) and Benteen had not arrived. Then, he did as you suggest, he brought the left wing up Deep Coulee and reunited with Keogh's right wing, still expecting Benteen. Reacting to the changing situation he remained on the offensive with the left wing, cutting down toward the river again, this time toward ford B until the Indians forced him to return near the right wing and form a defensive perimeter. Cavalry in the defense is not a good thing.

Walt

[Tony]

Walt
Your post is somewhat confusing. You say C.I.L went immediately to Calhoun Hill, and Benteen was suppose to find them there, while Yates two companies were to attack the village. Where is Custer at this time? Knowing the size and the strength of the village, Custer would never have sent only two companies (about 80 men) to attack it. As to taking the presure off Reno, Custer never knew Reno was retreating as can be witnessed by Martini's ride. By Reno fighting the warriors in the valley is exactly what Custer wanted--to keep them busy while he attacked UNNOTICED to capure the non-coms.Why then would he want to attrack all the warriors to his position?
I still maintain that the company he sent to the ford was to "hold" it or survey it for a possible crossing ONCE Benteen arrived. Again, why send for more men and needed ammo and then leave to attack without it--it dosen't make sense.

[bigpond]

Maybe,just maybe,the feint down MTC was not for Reno's cause,but was for GAC to head further North for Non-coms.With the warriors fighting Reno,and E,F at MTC,the coast would be clear for GAC.
The only problem I have with this is,is Custer himself.
Custer was a leader of soldiers[not a general]and was always at the front of the charge,but at the LBH he dosn't seem to be involved till the LSH,given the time lapse since the Reno charge,it does seem a little odd.

[Tony]

Could be!! But I think the move nort from Calhoun Hill to LSH was an effort by Custer to protect his flank--by this time, he undoubably saw warriors coming out of Deep Ravine and would naturally assume they would take LSH (high ground) and attack his flank--I think he took E and F to prevent that. He may have still been waiting for Benteen to show his insubordinate A---! I don't think that move to the ford was ever intended to be a sham attack--it just doesn't make any sense to me--by doing this he gives up all advantage of surprise--that which he needed and tried to acomplish. I spent all my life reconstructing crimes in law enforcement, so I look at this the same way--reconstructing a crime--I try to objectivly look at all sides.

[custermania]

Right, but than again if it doesn’t add up probably reason. I mean many saw him down by the Ford or close to it. I see no way he stayed back. I think he dropped Keogh off on the way down

Jun 8, 2005 8:37:24 GMT -6 Tony said:

Could be!! But I think the move nort from Calhoun Hill to LSH was an effort by Custer to protect his flank--by this time, he undoubably saw warriors coming out of Deep Ravine and would naturally assume they would take LSH (high ground) and attack his flank--I think he took E and F to prevent that. He may have still been waiting for Benteen to show his insubordinate A---! I don't think that move to the ford was ever intended to be a sham attack--it just doesn't make any sense to me--by doing this he gives up all advantage of surprise--that which he needed and tried to acomplish. I spent all my life reconstructing crimes in law enforcement, so I look at this the same way--reconstructing a crime--I try to objectivly look at all sides.