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Post by lancestallion on Apr 10, 2008 13:20:06 GMT -6
During the part where Reno begins his valley charge... There is a scene where the Indians are scrambling for cover because they know Reno is charging. In the chaos, two Indians are shown dragging a white man through camp. Does anyone know what this is about? If you want to check this scene out for yourself, I don't know the exact time it comes up, but it is on Tape 2, and it is 17 seconds before the scene of the baby sitting in the tepee by itself crying. here is a screen cap of the scene. Any ideas?
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 10, 2008 15:33:32 GMT -6
Could be one of the two soldiers who's horses bolted with them into the Village and were never seen alive again.
Hunk
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Post by clw on Apr 10, 2008 16:47:54 GMT -6
In the book Connell mentions a reference to some captives having been taken at the Rosebud fight. I asked the same question before I read the book.
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Post by lancestallion on Apr 10, 2008 17:41:21 GMT -6
Okay, I could definitely see the "captive from Rosebud fight" angle. I just wish they would make mention of that (captives) in the movie. I've watched this show several times and this was the first time I've noticed this.
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Post by alfuso on Apr 10, 2008 21:31:09 GMT -6
It's called sloppy editing. There probably was a sequence showing them running into the village and being captured. But what we end up with is a few brief seconds on screen because the scene was edited out and someone missed this bit.
You can tell by the cuts that the village sequences were filmed separately
alfuso
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Post by clw on Apr 11, 2008 6:20:48 GMT -6
My copy of the book is loaned to a friend or I'd look it up. But the scence matches the reference. It's very brief and if I remember correctly Connell indicates that the possibility of a captive having been brought along from June 17 is unlikely.
I don't think the scene is based on a run away horse bolting into the village. If so we wouldn't see a soldier bound and alive. Pretty sure in such a scenario they'd be killed on sight.
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Post by crzhrs on Apr 11, 2008 10:38:51 GMT -6
There was another scene of two Indians wrangling with a soldier who had a hand cut off. Not sure if this is the same scene or a different trooper.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 11, 2008 16:36:41 GMT -6
I've got John Carroll's copy of the script and shooting schedule in front of me (he was an advisor) but I don't see anything describing that scene. In fact, I'm totally amazed by what isn't in those two things. There must be lots of other notebooks with descriptions of what they intended to film because the script has only the speaking parts with brief, bare-bones descriptions of the actions to be performed. I've never been on a movie set, so I don't know how they put things together. Based on the notebook we have, I would say every movie is a miracle! I just flipped to Day 28 (Continued) of the shooting schedule. Under the heading "Makeup/Hair" it has "Custer: wound in left side; temple; blood from ears." Gee, I wonder what scene that was.
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Post by alfuso on Apr 11, 2008 17:33:26 GMT -6
I've got John Carroll's copy of the script and shooting schedule in front of me (he was an advisor) but I don't seen anything describing that scene. That's interesting. I have John Carroll's copy of the script, too! Along with photos he took on set, and assorted letters he exchanged and his notebook of corrections to the script. alfuso
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 11, 2008 20:36:44 GMT -6
So you can see what I mean. How on earth did they shoot a movie based on that?
I'm not surprised about the duplicate script. John had to finance his Custer addiction, so he was a prolific compiler and sold most of his research in some manner. We have some photos and letters, too. We bought Jim Schneider's collection a couple of years ago, and the SOMS stuff was part of that. The shooting schedule is "certified" by John to be one of only ten copies made by Republic, but I would be very surprised if that were true.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 12, 2008 15:49:39 GMT -6
My copy of the book is loaned to a friend or I'd look it up. But the scence matches the reference. It's very brief and if I remember correctly Connell indicates that the possibility of a captive having been brought along from June 17 is unlikely. I don't think the scene is based on a run away horse bolting into the village. If so we wouldn't see a soldier bound and alive. Pretty sure in such a scenario they'd be killed on sight.
I can find nothing in Connell that refers to any of Crook's soldiers from the Rosebud fight being captured by the Indians. In "The Battle of the Rosebud:Prelude to the Little Bighorn" by Neil C. Mangum, details of Crook's casualties are listed and there is no mention of any soldiers missing, only killed or wounded. If the soldier in the film clip is not one of Reno's, the mystery remains. Hunk
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Post by clw on Apr 12, 2008 16:29:30 GMT -6
Hunk I don't mean to contradict you, but I'm almost positive I read it there. That's what I get for loaning my books out -- unsolved mysteries. In fact I think it was Horse who mentioned it here the first time this was discussed. Horse is my Alzheimer's kicking in again?
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Post by clw on Apr 12, 2008 16:59:39 GMT -6
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Post by Montana Bab on Apr 12, 2008 18:26:55 GMT -6
Could someone address the fact that the 'person' in the foreground of that picture is holding what appears to be a little 'white' girl? I don't recall reading anywhere that a white child was taken hostage at LBH
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Post by BrokenSword on Apr 12, 2008 18:51:50 GMT -6
I think the book mentioned soldiers from the Rosebud fight, or 7th Cav. stragglers as being captives in the Indian camp at the time of Reno's charge. Correct or not, that's why the director set that scene up depicting same.
It seems that there have been some outlandish tales (one of two if I recall right) of people claiming to have been captives in the Indian camp, having witnessed the whole fight and then escaping later to 'tell the tale' (at the nearest newspaper).
I have no idea if the child was intended to be a depiction of a captive, or was just one of the Hollywood extras that wasn't Indian. Movieland gets away with some amazing stuff: Digital watches on Civil War slave children and flower delivery trucks speeding along with Braveheart's attack on the English and such."It's a quick shot. No one will notice." Not having reckoned on Beer Maiden Bab.
Funny that Gary Cole has said in several interviews that G.A. Custer was among his favorite roles. The set was one of the most enjoyable ones he's worked on, and the 'opportunity to horseback ride so much' was a main reason for that.
As far as I'm concerned, horseback riding is simply a matter of holding on for dear life - so what would I know?
M
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