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Post by weir on Dec 2, 2005 18:14:58 GMT -6
That's incredible. Incredible. You really need to be shaken. Just remember that history is not a game, and when irresponsible persons say what they want about Custer, when they unfairly dirtied his memory by spreading rumors like the "squaw killer", the washita massacre or others, you will always have me on your back. This is not being an "Indian hater" but you are presently dishonest persons with the historical figures you are writing about. I'll fight "Custer haters" and "History haters", and I'm very obstinate about that.
crzhrse : - Gall's family was killed by arkaras and crows, according by their own statements (see Lakota Noon). They were ahead of Reno's column. It was their responsability. They were never ordered to do that, and Herendeen was scandalized when he discovered the bodies laid in a ravine near the river. - Osages were not supposed to be part of the battle of the Washita, that's why they caught, killed and scalped Black Kettle far from the main battle, that's why they killed also cheyenne women near Black Kettle's body. It happened far from the main battle I repeat. Osages scouts killed most of the civilian losses of this day. When Osages tried to kill cheyenne civilians kept in a teepee in the village, near the command, Custer intervened (about Custer's personal intervention see Hutton, Custer reader, 102. The rest in alreday quoted under Greene in other posts).
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Post by bigpond on Dec 2, 2005 19:24:39 GMT -6
Dishonest person, falsifying figures !! I think you deserve the Glasgow Kiss West And that could easily be arranged !!
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Post by Tricia on Dec 2, 2005 19:48:12 GMT -6
West and CSS--
I think I am anything but a Custer hater. Instead, I seek a balance between all the parts of his story, both good and bad. That includes his actions--or lack of them--in battle situations and whether he could or could not be held responsible for actions taken under his command--both by the soldiers AND the scouts employed by the regiment.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by Scout on Dec 3, 2005 9:39:22 GMT -6
Horse,
My comments earlier about revisionism and the 'mutual admiration society' between Crows & Cheyennes; I never said anyone on the board felt like that. I am referring to Joe Medicine Crow's ridiculous statement on the History Channel that the Crows wanted to take off their uniforms and go join their 'free brothers'. Where he got such nonsense is beyond me. The Crows hated the Siuox and wanted to kill as many as possible for years of torment. Also horse, The incident I am talking about envolved Custer and his Crow scouts killing Sioux prisoners, not Miles. The incident is in Camp's notes. Don't know the incident you are talking about.
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Post by Scout on Dec 3, 2005 9:45:41 GMT -6
I stand corrected...it was Miles. I was thinking of another incident where GAC blew his cork on his Crow scouts.
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Post by weir on Dec 3, 2005 10:00:48 GMT -6
Dishonest person, falsifying figures !! I think you deserve the Glasgow Kiss West And that could easily be arranged !! So much love, I'm embarrased. ;D Scout, I remember an event with Bloody Knife and Custer during the 1874 Black Hills campaign about scouts-Indian relationship. Bloody Knife said that Custer should have let the scouts kill the Indians that were permitted to come to the 7th camp and receive supplies.
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Post by El Crab on Dec 3, 2005 13:37:06 GMT -6
E Company, I believe, with Custer and scouts came upon a few lodges and the scouts were looking for a few easy scalps. This was either on the Black Hills campaign or the Yellowstone, I want to say it was the latter.
Joe Medicine Crow needs to get his facts straight. Unless things have changed since John Stands In Timber left us, the Crow and Cheyenne still were uneasy around each other. JSIT talked about their meetings many years after fights, and arguments over the events and the revelations of who did what to whom would become rather heated. And from what I've heard, they still have some of that animosity with 'em.
Its pretty laughable that the Crows wanted to join the Sioux and Cheyenne. Maybe, just maybe, he means they wished to be free and roaming the Plains. But if I were a betting man, I'd say the reason they couldn't wasn't due to the white man, but to the Sioux and Cheyenne. After all, the Crow turned to the whites because they needed or wanted help.
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Post by historynut1876 on Dec 3, 2005 22:37:00 GMT -6
greenpheon - Do yourself a favor and ignore most everything Marshall has to say. I hate to say that about a Native American writer, but Marshall is very inaccurate about lots of things and gets away with it only because he is Native American. His book on Crazy Horse is not too good. I was very disappointed with it.
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Post by Scout on Dec 4, 2005 11:36:33 GMT -6
How about Larry McMurtry's 'Crazy Horse' bio.....he wants to write nonfiction but just can't help making things up. I only read a small part at the bookstore where it was in the nonfiction section. Was it really supposed to be nonfiction? He's a great fiction writer though, can't say anything bad about 'Lonesome Dove.' I guess you can't bat .400 all of the time.
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Post by alfuso on Dec 4, 2005 11:55:41 GMT -6
Scout
I got on McMurty's bad side when I wrote to him about what I thought of the "facts" in his CH bio. Got a hand-written letter back from him, but he was insulted. Well, too bad.
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