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Post by elisabeth on Oct 23, 2005 13:37:51 GMT -6
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Post by Tricia on Oct 23, 2005 20:53:28 GMT -6
Elisabeth--
The "boyish chuckle" seems quite true to life ... supposedly, Custer's laugh was rather high-pitched and quite loud. I do wonder how easy it was to get iced tea in the mid-Victorian era.
Looks like a great read! Leyton McLean
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Post by ma dawg got et on Oct 24, 2005 4:38:28 GMT -6
elisabeth
thx for the heads-up. I just ordered this book. along with "Not to Yield" novel-bio of Wild Bill Hickock. He has an affair with Libbie, you see...
alfuso
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Post by Tricia on Oct 25, 2005 18:31:31 GMT -6
I still fail to see what Libbie saw in Wild Bill. That entire attraction was rather embarrassing ... perhaps she was giving Armstrong as good as she got?
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by ma dawg got et on Oct 26, 2005 0:33:44 GMT -6
Libbie saw in Wild Bill -- a more dangerous version of her husband...
alfuso
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Post by elisabeth on Oct 26, 2005 8:07:03 GMT -6
... yet with the safety of knowing that Wild Bill was too much of a gentleman to take advantage?
She did seem to like that whiff of danger, didn't she. The Weir attraction had a touch of it too, with his drinking. But I'm sure you're right, Leyton, all these flirtations were as much part of their power game as anything ...
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Post by ma dawg got et on Oct 26, 2005 13:39:58 GMT -6
flirting was Victorian art form
alfuso
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Post by Tricia on Oct 27, 2005 10:42:01 GMT -6
... yet with the safety of knowing that Wild Bill was too much of a gentleman to take advantage? She did seem to like that whiff of danger, didn't she. The Weir attraction had a touch of it too, with his drinking. But I'm sure you're right, Leyton, all these flirtations were as much part of their power game as anything ... Elisabeth-- Come to think of it, although a college graduate, Custer was from the wrong side of the tracks. It was only after he became a general that I think Judge Bacon gave the romance any sort of blessing. I guess Libbie liked her men a little rough around the edges, though from what I've read, both Weir and Custer could be well-spoken and mannered. I'm not so sure about Wild Bill! I always kind of wondered if Libbie had a bit of a savior complex about her. Looks like just another case of good girl, bad boy. Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by elisabeth on Oct 27, 2005 11:28:54 GMT -6
I seem to remember that from Libbie's description, Wild Bill was "well-spoken and mannered" too. Maybe what she liked was the contrast: gentlemanly manners, but tough as old boots and a trained killer underneath? -- "Saviour complex" is good, though. Leckie, I think, puts forward the theory that Weir was a bit of a crusade for Libbie: she could explain it all to herself as trying to save him from the Demon Drink ...
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Post by Tricia on Oct 27, 2005 16:03:08 GMT -6
I seem to remember that from Libbie's description, Wild Bill was "well-spoken and mannered" too. Maybe what she liked was the contrast: gentlemanly manners, but tough as old boots and a trained killer underneath? -- "Saviour complex" is good, though. Leckie, I think, puts forward the theory that Weir was a bit of a crusade for Libbie: she could explain it all to herself as trying to save him from the Demon Drink ... Elisabeth-- I try to wonder what her husband thought about this need of Libbie's to save. I seem to remember he once asked Tom (who was one of LBC's primary projects, it seems to me), "has the old lady taught you to say your prayers yet?" I think it was rather tongue in cheek; Libbie didn't seem so successful from time to time, especially in light of Custer's gambling problems ... but you got to hand it to Libbie. She was always trying, even if it was only to debut and introduce lovely young women from Monroe to the fort in order to "save" some of the regiment's bachelors from the loneliness of army life. Of course, marriage was the most desired state of nature--though I'm sure some members of the Seventh were fully committed to the freedoms associated with bachelorhood! Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by ma dawg got et on Oct 29, 2005 9:59:57 GMT -6
got my copy of GIB today. A brief glean shows just a torrent of fascinating quotes. Pleasonton didn't want command of the AOP because he wouldn't pay the price which was to run the war until the South was crushed, slavery abolished and the President re-elected.
alfuso
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 1, 2005 4:18:01 GMT -6
all
GIB is a delightful read. Wonderful insights from these old soldiers, especially decades later when they were not afraid to express their views.
I found it curious that Hancock did not think Custer had the soldier's eye: "Custer did not have it but he was not necessarily a soldier - I think the pictorial, the romantic part of War appealed to him as much as the fighting. He had more of the artist's or literary eye."
The description of Kearny by Gen James Rowan O'Beirne is especially notable since it tells us a lot of why Custer looked and acted as he did since Kearny was the first General he was aide to:
On Kearny "Every muscle of his face bristled with the military spirit of the man, and so powerful was the expression of his countenance, in every feature and lineament when in action or moving about that he seemed to spread a very contagion of courage and enthusiasm among those about him. So much so, that they shared it at once irresistibly and his presence was palpably felt on all sides.
"He wore going into a fight, his most brilliant uniform very largely covered with gold lace, emphasizing very much the French style. He wore a cap of the Chasseur d'Afrique covered with gold lace indicating his rank and usually wore a light military cloak."
Just a treasure of insights in this book, so it was sad to find that this artist doesn't even have a marked grave.
alfuso
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 1, 2005 10:02:57 GMT -6
That's fabulous, Alfuso. This is clearly going to be essential reading.
What an interesting insight of Hancock's. Could this help explain the "two Custers" phenomenon? That the mess he made of at least his early days on the Plains was because he could find no romance in any of it? Later, when he's got the hang of sign language, dealing with Indian scouts, wearing buckskins, etc, he's much more capable -- perhaps because he's found a new kind of romance, as Greatest Indian Fighter/The Man Who Understands Indians? He has to process things through his imagination before he can deal with them? Clever old Hancock.
And the Kearny thing is very illuminating, too. Wonder if it'd be interesting/useful to look at the formative generals for all our key characters, and see if each followed his general's pattern? For Benteen it'd be Wilson, I suppose; for Keogh, Buford; I don't know about the rest. (Probably wouldn't offer any clues for Reno, as he was a regular before the war; but for all those who learned their soldiering in the CW, it might be helpful?)
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Post by ma dawg got et on Nov 1, 2005 14:39:01 GMT -6
your insights are equally good.
alfuso
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 7, 2005 7:24:51 GMT -6
Thanks, Alfuso!
Got my copy today. Another interesting snippet in the interview with Professor Thaddeus C. Lowe, the Civil War balloon man. He's describing Custer's first balloon ascent:
"Custer was completely unnerved when he was up in the balloon with me, but he stuck it out ... I saw at a glance that he had courage, but that his courage was impulsiveness. It was not that steady underlying courage, but that kind that had to act at once."
Does this offer clues about LBH? Explaining why he keeps on moving, even though it's away from support -- first from MTF, and then from the reunion at Calhoun Hill? Making a stand, organising a defence, takes that second kind of courage, the sort of coolness Benteen shows on Reno Hill; maybe Custer was temperamentally unable to go into defensive mode until absolutely forced into it on LSH. It fits with everything we know, I think ...
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