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Post by fred on Dec 22, 2010 12:49:36 GMT -6
Man, oh, man! do I agree with you here! Especially about Keegan and Tuchman. I have one book by Keegan that turns out to be the biggest crock of undocumented, sweeping bloviation I have ever had the pleasure of not finishing. And all about American history, no less!
And Barbara Tuchman's work was enthralling. Doris Kearns Goodwin should try reading her.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by montrose on Dec 22, 2010 16:56:30 GMT -6
I teach part time at a local college. I had to do a seminar on academic dishonesty. I was deeply surprised to see Ambrose used as an example of nearly every type of academic dishonesty and fraud.
He was a chronic plagiarist, from his earliest works to his last works. He didn't copy a sentence or two. He stole pages of others words.
He was a major biographer of Eisenhower. He cited several interviews that did not take place. As time continued, he kept adding things that Eisenhower supposedly said. Historians who reviewed his work believe he lied extensively.
He had a new fraud that I never even imagined. He makes up some allegations and cites them. But the citation does not contain the material he made up. I have worked as a thesis adviser for ten years, and never thought to check the citations.
Ambrose made a living as a historian. But his widespread fraud makes him a criminal. He falsely sold products he claimed were friction, when they were fiction.
I am disappointed. I deeply admired his work in college and my early military career. I saw him lecture twice, late 80s time frame. I remember him giving me sound advice on an ACW paper I had written.
I liked Keegan's early work. His later work was sloppy, I think just written for an easy buck. I liked Tuchman's book. I believe I read that 25 years ago, and still have fond memories of it.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Dec 22, 2010 17:39:32 GMT -6
Just to say, Tuchman wrote about eleven books plus books of essays. She won the Pulitzer twice, for Guns of August and Stilwell and the American Experience in China. I can recommend them all, but I agree with her The Proud Tower was the best.
Frankly, even if they were fiction, I'd recommend them for excellent writing. But I've read nothing about plagiarism or incompetence or even error related to her. She died in '89. Her final book, The First Salute, is as fine and interesting study of the Revolution as I've ever read. And short. And funny.
She would just about always find a guy she really liked and used him to carry the narrative. Because she clearly admired these men, the reader - and I'd never heard of some of these guys - did as well. Balfour, Courcy, Stilwell, Reed, Gallieni, Jaures, Rodney, a great set of characters who actually lived.
She came from an important family, the Morgenthaus. Her grandfather was ambassador to Turkey, and at the age of two she was witness to the fight between the Goeben and the British off Greece. The German ambassador and crew came and rudely deposed the utterly innocent family starting a prejudice against Germans she freely admitted, and in twenty years gathered much support. But even as she wrote about her prejudice, she explained why she avoided writing about things that would prompt a rant, and so she chose to write about German music in the person of Strauss rather than, again, lay into the Kaiser.
None the less, her quite often uproarious descriptions of the Kaiser are pretty much agreed upon, and I would not have known, in a blind test, if her name was O'Hurley or Cohen from her writings. But I admire her admission, clear and upfront. And, I forgive it easily enough.
A lot of what you mention about Ambrose is the exact sort of crap Ward Churchill did here in a vastly lesser sphere.
I wish military men would feel less reticent about publicly contradicting favored historians (like the inexplicably renowned Keegan) who have friends in the brass, because they're tongue bathed. But it can be made to seem like the guys who complain are really just jealous of those praised in the book, like the Ambrose one about bombers in Europe, so they keep quiet. Ambrose counted on that, I'd bet.
Disgraceful.
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Post by fred on Dec 22, 2010 18:24:55 GMT -6
Sorry to say the only Barbara Tuchman book I have ever read was The Guns of August-- which I read when it first came out-- and I detected no anti-anything. I found it a brilliant story, almost written like a very good novel. To me, it is still the best book ever written about the beginning of World War I.
My first problem with Keegan began when I read an interview he gave. First of all, I have immediate problems with anyone who is indiscriminately dubbed the world's foremost military strategist, which is essentially what he was being called at the time, especially since no one I knew had ever called upon him to solve any military issue other than a sand-table exercise in a military high school.
In this interview-- which came after he had completed his highly acclaimed series on Adolph Hitler-- and I have to try to recall this from fading memory-- he said he refused to interview Hitler's secretary-- Traudl Junge-- who was still alive at that time. His reason was something like, well, all these Germans who were close to Hitler would only be giving me excuses for what they didn't do. That alone allowed me to retain in my mind the Joachim Fest book about Hitler as the best ever written.
Keegan's arrogance and seeming quest for pin money reached another level when he wrote a book on American history-- which, like a fool, I actually bought-- that is neither annotated nor does it contain a bibliography. It allowed him to pontificate, however, about the LBH battle and so many other things that I simply put it aside and refer to it now only jokingly.
Again, with Ambrose, I read his book on Ike, probably close to when it first came out.... Who knew at the time?
As for your contention, DC, that military men are reticent to criticize military historians, you may be correct, but to me, military men have an obligation to do exactly that. Who better? And since the stakes are so high, in body count, personal advancement, reputation, and legacy, it is paramount they do precisely that. Otherwise you wind up with a world of John Keegans and S. L. A. Marshalls.
Best wishes, Fred.
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