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Post by strange on Sept 11, 2007 15:56:12 GMT -6
Indeed I'll look into it straight away! Most of every thing I know of Crazy Horse comes practically from that Peter Horton movie, I'm real lazy on catching up to 'Horse as you've all probably estimated by now. Usually the Union generals are my focus from that period, Geronimo is really the only Indian I've read up on, HE HAS AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY! Its one of the greatest things I've ever read and quite rare to see such a historical figure in his own words. I've also started on Custer's own writings as well. Out of all the history I've been through, I've just never quite been able to put a firm grasp on Crazy Horse compared to the others I've looked up. I'd like to think I specialize on getting deep in on the raw fighting skills of the individuals I single out, but I can never get Crazy Horse to come alive for me and sadly he's almost a figment of my imagination! But I'll do my best to get a good footing, I suppose each person has different characters of their own to latch on to, if everyone knew everybody, life wouldn't be much fun I suppose.
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Post by brock on Sept 11, 2007 17:12:22 GMT -6
Start with his core values, in other words his culture and religion, then it will make it much easier later when you want to ascertain his motives.
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 11, 2007 17:15:16 GMT -6
Hunk(a burnin' love?) <Jeez Crazy, now I have a nap hand 'cos I thought you might be the odd man out! Ooh, I've come over all emotional?  You lost me on that one . . . |
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 11, 2007 17:22:33 GMT -6
Much of what we have on Crazy Horse is from other people. And since he was/is held in such high regard by his peers and descendants we have to pick through the real CH and the legend.
Crazy Horse lived for barely six months on the reservation and his stay there is charged with emotion, lies, rumors, threats and he was constantly being tugged on by his people and whites to come to some type of accommodation. There is no known photo of him and his ending only adds to his mystique.
Sandoz' book deals more with the legend (still think it is an excellent book) but Bray uses contemporaries of CH and oral history past down by descendants. I highly recommend his book. In addition it has an entire chapter devoted to the LBH and CH's part in it. Also deals with what Custer was trying to do.
Haven't gotten the CDs . . . but hear they are outstanding.
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Post by strange on Sept 11, 2007 18:11:25 GMT -6
Ah, but then you still run into difficulties! Many historians can be quite prejudice against things they consider myth. There are definitely tall tales of Crazy Horse and Custer I'm sure, but to "de-mythify" them is quite absurd to me sometimes. A myth is saying that some one rode a tornado or farted a bunny rabbit, 'science' however will pretty much rule anything spectacular as a "myth". One unfortunate cultural misunderstanding is that science often can't quite understand the way Indians word things in poetic tongue, so then every thing is considered a tall tale when no one understands use of expression. I'm not saying that tall tales don't exist, but I feel real facts are constantly being ignored for being to magnificent. I hate to bring up the subject of William Wallace's height again, but people who stand 6'7" are in existence and I don't see why they have such a problem with that figure; no record says he's 5'7"! So I definitely want to believe in Crazy Horse's fighting skills, but no one talks specifically of what he actually does in battle; you're often told that he was very brave and stormed up unscathed. As for Custer, he's consistently painted as a wrestler type if he gets hand to hand, never quite throwing a punch but effective enough to yank people up, etc. There should be a new thread or I should try and read something that goes into specifics on how Crazy Horse fought. It seems its quite clear that he most definitely enjoyed the fun and games aspect of toying then killing. Geronimo was never big on fun and games, he liked the simplicity of of just getting the job done and has never kept track of how many he killed (though its very high, I will tell you all. Its very ironic that the warrior with probably the highest body count never says much of what he did, just that he did it. )
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Post by shatonska on Sept 12, 2007 6:01:58 GMT -6
strange
"So I definitely want to believe in Crazy Horse's fighting skills, but no one talks specifically of what he actually does in battle"
no one ? we know more about his deeds than of any other indian
read at least Kingsley M. Bray book
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 12, 2007 9:42:45 GMT -6
You need to start reading books regarding Crazy Horse. If no other go to Kingsley's Bray's excellent new book.
Or you can read accounts by peers of Crazy Horse, especially He Dog, CH's closest and most loyal friend.
He Dog said Crazy Horse always got off his horse to shoot his rifle. He wanted to make sure he hit what he was aiming at.
Sometimes it's not how you fought but how you led your men. Crazy Horse it seems had more success in battle than others which led to many young warriors wanting to follow and fight with him.
There are numerous web sites regarding Crazy Horse and what was said about him. Just type in Crazy Horse and see what you come up with.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Sept 12, 2007 15:36:16 GMT -6
Crazy, my post #13 explains all. I saw stars, red stars and with the onset of senility, seeing your name on a nearby post, jumped to the wrong conclusion. I still love you of course, but Diane has first claim on my heart. Mind you, her interest in vivisection does worry me a little. Perhaps the Indian woman at the LBH had a similar interest.
Hunk
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Post by strange on Sept 12, 2007 15:47:20 GMT -6
Strange, getting back to the thread, have you yet purchased the two DVD's, Part I and Part II of 'The Authorized Biography of Crazy Horse and His Family'? If not, you can get them via the website www.reelcontact.com - worthwhile and I believe there are two further parts to come. Hunk I'm looking into it. I'll try and get to it when I have the spare time.THANKS! |
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Sept 12, 2007 15:48:37 GMT -6
Strange, two more ideas to help you understand more about Tasunke Witko, properly translated as His Crazy Horse. Read 'To Kill an Eagle', Indian Views on the Last Days of Crazy Horse, by Edward and Mabell Kadlecek and the Win Blevins novel 'Stone Song' a magnificent read and a fitting fictional portrait of the Ogalala warrior.
Hunk
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 13, 2007 7:21:56 GMT -6
<'To Kill an Eagle', Indian Views on the Last Days of Crazy Horse, by Edward and Mabell Kadlecek>
Agree! I purchased the book quite a while back and found it very informative . . . especially the stories related by the very elderly man interviewed who was a small boy when CH was alive. Other accounts passed down by descenants are equally good. Excellent photos throughout.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Sept 13, 2007 9:04:24 GMT -6
CH, have you read 'Stone Song'? If so, what did you think of it? If not you really should, it is certainly not in any way a superficial look at the subject and in some ways does flesh out what facts we do know.
Hunk
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Post by crzhrs on Sept 13, 2007 9:51:36 GMT -6
Hunk:
Not really into fictional accounts of historical figures/events . . . even though some say Sandoz's book is more fiction than fact.
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Post by clw on Sept 20, 2007 11:00:32 GMT -6
According to members of the Clown family (who have already had their family tree accepted as genuine at a long contested court case at Rosebud tribal court naming them as the true descendants of Crazy Horse and are now looking to close the door on anyone looking to be added to their tree...this battle has been six years long...Judge Whiting overseeing), In that context it's important to note that makes Crazy Horse Mnicoujou...... not Oglala. In regard to "wife stealing"........ A woman was free to leave one man for another. In fact within the culture, No Water's reaction and the fact that he shot Crazy Horse was the aberrant behavior. |
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Sept 20, 2007 11:37:59 GMT -6
clw, you have really raised a polemic with that one. Rattling Blanket Woman the mother of His Crazy Horse was a Mniconjou, but lived with her husband's Hunkpatila band, a splinter group of the Oglala. I understand that this was contrary to the norm for a matriarchal society where the husband usually resided with the wife's family group. Neverthless, although on the Indian Memorial at the LBH His Crazy Horse is described as Minnikohoju Lakota, which I believe means that his mother was a Mniconjou woman, his long association with his father's band has been used to describe him as an Oglala in most books. I have also seen him labelled as a Bad Face Oglala because the Hunkpatila's were nearly always camped with that band. I am sure that Mniconjou may be the PC way to describe him, but I suspect that most people will always ynink of him as an Oglala.
Hunk
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"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they