Two Kettle Sioux at LBH

[Dietmar]

Ladonna´s post about John Grass was very fascinating and informative. A lot of new information. Not only about John Grass and the Sihasapa, but also about the Two Kettle´s role in the Little Bighorn battle.

I´ve been thinking out of several reasons about the Oohenompa for a while. They are mostly designated as a “peaceful tribe”, at least regarding to their relationship to Whites. Dorsey listed only two bands of Two Kettle. Their best known leaders were Long Mandan, Four Bears (and later his son? Joseph Four Bears) and Rattling Ribs. Until reading the Welch text I think I could not remember that someone ever mentioned a Two Kettle leader at LBH.

Gregory Michno in "Lakota Noon" stated that Hollow Horn Bear (Brule, Iron Shell´s son) had spent the winter 1875/76 at Spotted Tail Agency. In May 1876 he and about twenty Two Kettles
"were out searching for lost ponies when they discovered the Terry Expedition moving west along the Heart River after leaving Fort Abraham Lincoln. After following them for a few days, they eventually located and joined up with Sitting Bull´s band, and were in the village about five days before the battle began."

Who were these Two Kettles? And were there any more at the LBH?
I would be glad to know more about it, please help!

I especially would be very thankful to hear more about the Two Kettle family of Fills the Pipe. Fills the Pipe´s wife was called Daylight. He had several children. Parts of the family ended up on Rosebud, Cheyenne River and Pine Ridge, according to family traditions. Are there any census records which mentioned this name?

Thank you

Dietmar

[harpskiddie]

Dietmar:

I can add little to what you perhaps already know about Two Kettles at the LBH. My early research was purely personal and marked by a propensity for neglecting to note sources. That research indicates that there were something less than 20 lodges of Two Kettles at LBH, with perhaps 20-30 men of warrior age, including several men without families. I have no idea where I got this information.

I have names for only two of these - Chased By Owls, who was killed, and Runs The Enemy, who was in his mid-teens. I haven't yet read Ladonna's posts [nor Greg Michno's book], but will now do so with interest.

Gordie,
once you told me, long ago, to the prom with me you'd go. Now you've changed your mind, it seems - someone else will hold my dreams..............................................

[Dietmar]

Thanks harpskiddie.

In the meantime I found out that in the Crazy Horse Surrender Ledger there is a Fills the Pipe among Crazy Horse´s following:
1 lodge with 1 male, 1 female and 3 female children

I don´t know if this family is Oglala. It is not the family of Red Dog´s son, Fills the Pipe, who at that time (1877) still resided in the lodge of his Oyuhpe father.
But there must be more census data about the supposed Two Kettle family, I´m sure.

[clw]

Deitmar, this comes from my oral history notes. That said, I've been told there were 18 Oohenumpa headmen with the hostiles that summer -- White Lance, Owl King, Afraid of Hawk, Kills Enemy, Big Elk, White Bull, Hawk Cloud, Sacred Bull, Big Dog, Bear Who Looks Behind and Little Shield. Which of them were actually in the LBH camp wasn't clarified. This loosely meshes with what Gordie said........ something less than 20 lodges of Two Kettles at LBH

[Dietmar]

clw,

thank you very much for sharing these names. I never heard them before. Thanks!!

I wonder if these men and their families were the Two Kettles who stayed permanently with the hostiles the summer of 1876... and if we must add the newcomers from the agency who are mentioned in Ladonna´s post (Long Mandan) and who came with the Sihasapa.

I have got information last week from a living daughter of a LBH participant who assured me that the Oohenompa camped close to the Blackfoot at the LBH.

Best wishes

Dietmar

[clw]

dietmar said:

I wonder if these men and their families were the Two Kettles who stayed permanently with the hostiles the summer of 1876... and if we must add the newcomers from the agency who are mentioned in Ladonna´s post (Long Mandan) and who came with the Sihasapa.

I was told that the Oohenumpa headmen I listed joined the hostiles sometime in the spring near the Slim Buttes camp and traveled with them that summer. We know that many tiospaye drifted in and out of the hostile camps, so very likely more came in later with the Sihasapa. I've been gone awhile and can't find LaDonna's post to reference -- what's the thread title?

[Dietmar]

clw, take a look at the John Grass thread.

[harpskiddie]

clw:

Thank you for the names. The only dates I have for the joining of the Two Kettles is mid-April, between the 17th and 21st on or near Sheep Creek, and possibly also around 1 May on the Tongue.

Gordie,
when I was a lad, old Shep was a pup, o'er hills and meadows we'd play............................

[clw]

Gordie, I don't know Sheep Creek. Is it in the Slim Buttes area? I was told 'early spring' which fits with your mid-April dates.

[harpskiddie]

clw:

It's a Cheyenne name, and I don't think it was near Slim Buttes, but near the Powder or Mizpah, but I may be wrong. I don't think the main camps were ever as far east as Slim Buttes. I place them near Chalk Butte [Ekalalka, MT] on 25 March, and moving north from there about a week later, up O'Fallon's, north and then west to the Powder and Mizpah Creek.

Gordie,
all around town it was well understood that I was knockin' them out, like Johnny B. Goode........

[clw]

Gordie ~

I'm thinking this through here based on what I've heard.........Slim Buttes was probably not a main camp per se, more like an early spring gathering point for the Lakota bands whose winter camps were along the Cheyenne and Owl rivers as far east as Bridger [EDIT should read as far WEST as Bridger and as far east as the Old Cheyenne Agency] -- a jumping off place for the spring hunt. The Mnicoujou winter camps, including Crazy Horse, were around Bear Butte, just south of Slim Buttes. Their drift north to Slim Buttes in the very early spring was toward Sitting Bull who was wintering around the Medora badlands (although he missed them at Slim Buttes and joined them at Piney Mountain -- or so I've heard) so we have a linkage point from three directions -- north, south and east -- before they started west. Maybe we're talking about two different perpsectives -- Lakota and Cheyenne. Weren't the Cheyenne winter camps further west (southwest?) to begin with?

The history I've heard has the largest group of the Cheyenne bands joining with the Lakota in mid May around Otter Creek. But I do have the Lakota at Piney Mountain (Ekalaka) in mid March -- same as you. The Lakota had so much extended family with the Cheyenne that I'm guessing there were many Cheyenne with them much earlier than May.

Doing a lot of guessing, as usual. What's your view?

Deitmar, great stuff in the 'John Grass' thread!

[harpskiddie]

clw:

My "charted" movements begin with the Cheyenne being jumped by Reynolds in March, fleeing to join Crazy Horse, and the united camps going to join Sitting Bull. Most of my info [you are correct in this regard] came from Cheyenne sources, mostly oral, in 1960. I have added stuff over the years, as I came across it, but have never tried to really authenticate [how?] the info, since it seems to fit in with information from white sources. At least it's not totally contradictory.

Without listing everything, my chart looks something like this:

15 March W about 40 lodges under Old Bear camped on Powder,40-50 miles north of Little Powder.
17 March F attacked by Reynolds. Village destroyed.
18 March S travel northeast toward Crazy Horse.
20 March M arrive at Crazy Horse camp on creek east of Powder.
23 March Th combined camp travels toward Sitting Bull.
25 March S join Hunkpapas near Ekalaka, east of Chalk Butte.
31 March F Lame Deer and large band of Miniconjous arrive
04 April T move north to next stream flowing into Powder.
09 April Su move north/northwest
11 April T move north
15 April S move north
17 April M move north, joined at this camp by a large band of Sans Arcs, more Indians arriving daily.
21 April F move down Sheep Creek, Blackfeet Sioux join at this camp with some Two Kettles.
24 April M move to Mizpah Creek/Powder River. Lame White Man arrives with large band of Cheyennes. There are also Santees, Brules, and Assiniboines in this camp.
29 April S short move
30 April Su short move
01 May M arrive at Tongue River near Pumpkin Creek. Kill EAgle comes in with at least 26 lodges at this camp.
06 May S short move up the Tongue for new grass. Dirty Moccasins arrives with large band of Cheyennes. All Camp circles have grown considerably.
11May Th move up the Tongue
15 May M short move up the Tongue
16 May T smoke of this camp seen by Bradley
17 May W move northwest
18 May Th another move northwest
19 May F reach the Rosebud, about 8 miles from its mouth
22 May M short move up the Rosebud
25 May Th another short move up the Rosebud
27 May S part of the camp observed by Bradley
29 May M short move. More Cheyennes arrive
30 May T another short move up Rosebud
03 June S move to sundance location
06 June T hunters stumble upon Crook's troops
08 June Th move up Rosebud to Muddy Creek
09 June F hunters return with news. Little Hawk and Crooked Nose go out to scout
15 June Th travel up Davis Creek, stopping short of divide
16 June F cross divide and move down Ash Creek. Little Hawk returns from second scout. Warriors sneak off in night to attack Crook.
17 June S Battle of the Rosebud. Crook pulls back
18 June Su village moves across country to Little Horn
20 June T Agency Roamers and Free Roamers come in from east and south at this camp. Size of village almost doubles
24 June S move down Little Horn below Ash Creek
25 June Su Custer attacks and is defeated
26 June M Reno besieged. Village moves up Little Horn in late afternoon

I would venture a guess, along with you, that camps identified as one band or nation often included people of other nations, so that Hunkpapas were not all Hunkpapas and etc. etc.

Gordie,
well, Im a-rockin' and a-rollin' - and I'm gettin' the breaks. The girls all said I had what it takes...

[ladonna]

Any of you ever heard Cave Hills which is east of Slim Buttes, I know where Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, and many other camped in the Cave Hill

[kingsleybray]

Interesting oral testimony from clw. Slim Buttes does sound like a good staging area for bands wintering near or around Cheyenne River Agency to meet up before moving westward to join the non-treaty bands for summer operations. I'm trying to pin down the details of the death of chief Lone Horn the Miniconjou. He died during the winter of 1875-76 at a camp on the Cheyenne River, not right at the mouth but within reach of the agency. I wonder if clw could help with where that camp might have been, or any details relating to the death of that great chief?

Kingsley Bray

[clw]

ladonna said:

Any of you ever heard Cave Hills which is east of Slim Buttes, I know where Crazy Horse, Sitting Bull, and many other camped in the Cave Hill

I have Ladonna. In fact, we visited there a couple of summers ago. First time I ever had someone check me with a Geiger counter. Beautiful country, poisoned land....



Kingsley,
I don't have much to offer, but I've heard that the Lone Horn/One Horn family wintered near Slim Buttes ('75/'76) and that when his camp went to draw rations it was at Fort Bennet (the orginal Cheyenne Agency about 60 miles north of Ft. Pierre), where he was recorded as a headman. I know that doesn't help much as he could have been anywhere in between at any given time. I've never heard mention of when or where he died.

Gordie,
I've started a map, but you know how those projects go. Trying to pinpoint some of those place names can make your eyes cross. For instance..... Sheep Creek!

Briefly......

After Slim Buttes, I pick them up at Piney Mountain. Then Sitting Bull's people moving to Black Horse Butte along the Powder (near Broadus, MT) and the main camp to Grey Horn Buttes along the Little Powder (near Weston WY), then coming back together around Otter Creek, then on to Deer Medicine Rock, the Rosebud and the Greasy Grass. I don't have all the little movements in between like you. One of these days I'm going map your data and mine....... one of these days.