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Post by Scout on Jul 28, 2006 15:48:40 GMT -6
I don't think most people realize how tall 7 feet really is. Most NBA players are under 7 foot tall. The whole insanity over TTC starts with his name...it was like a lot of Native Americans a spirtitual name. Whatever maybe said, there is no proof TTC was that tall, especially since there are photos. HE IS IN THE WASHINGTON DELAGATION PHOTO and is listed as having gone to Washington. A 7 foot person would have been a major freak in the 1870's when the average height was much less than it is now. TCC would have ended up in Barnum's circus. There would have been many, and I mean many pictures taken of him at such abnormal ht. Still people have to believe in myths...it's human nature.
Ever notice how all 'famous people' in history are 6 foot or over? The only problem is that many of their clothes still survive. Custer himself was described as 6 foot...here again his clothes are still around...he appears to have been in the 5'8 or 5'9 area. People want their heroes BIG and TALL to fit their perpective of a hero, kinda like the Duke. They HAVE to be tall...Many were ordinary people of ordinary height cast into the history spotlight. I don't think Long Soldier was 7 foot at all...If most men were in the average range of 5'6 to 5'10 range then someone 6'3 would have looked like a giant. Check out the Fort Abraham Lincoln photo of the 7th and look at Wallace...he looks like giant of 7 foot if we think most of the 7th is 6 ft. tall, but they weren't, were they? We have their heights on enlistment papers. once a myth gets going it's like a barn fire...hard to put out. wishful thinking. There is no reason for such a coverup of TCC height or Long Soldier. Scout has spoken.
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Post by markland on Jul 29, 2006 8:52:16 GMT -6
Just to add to Scout's post. I ran a quick calculation on the database and averaged the height obtained from the enlistment register. The number of men for which I currently have height information is 1363. The average height was 66.53 inches. A tad over 5' 6 1/2". The bulk of these men were enlisted post-Civil War with a few prior to the war. To put things really into perspective, only 19 men were six foot or more.
Be good,
Billy
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jul 29, 2006 9:09:16 GMT -6
A good example of Scout's observation is Daniel Boone. James Audobon, who was a keen and scientific observer of birds and nature and who knew Boone, nevertheless described Boone as gigantic, but Boone's own son described him as in the 5'8" range. One thing that distorts is the head. Guys with large heads look bigger in photos and paintings - and in memory - than they are. Hats and head coverings of office may serve the same purpose.
I have one personal example in reverse. I grew up a Mickey Mantle fan, and the guy always looked huge on television. But when I saw him in person up close, he wasn't that tall, maybe under 6 feet, which was surprising, but his shoulders and huge expanse of back gave a proportion that suggested greater height. He was actually scary-odd looking in his prime.
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Post by d o harris on Jul 29, 2006 12:55:34 GMT -6
DC a Mickey Mantle fan? Good grief. Is it possible DC is also a closet baseball fan? That he does, in fact, understand the subtleties of the game? If so, DC, you have my deep and sincere apologies for remarks I have made elsewhere. Of course, I'd like verification. Runners on first and second, basehit to right, the fielder cleanly grabs the ball on one hop and throws----where? Frankly, I suspect you may know the correct answer, as many others do not. Nonetheless, anyone who is, or ever was, a Mickey Mantle fan could not possibly be a complete [fill in your own descriptive expletives.] But, of course I could be wrong, and often am.
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Post by Scout on Jul 29, 2006 13:35:12 GMT -6
DC is right about Mantle...he was under 6 ft. I suppose he was every boy's idol at point. I later saw him and asked him for an autograph and he gave me a very stern 'NO'. Well, needless to say I was utterly destroyed. Years later a friend of mine in the sports business asked me if I wanted to meet Mantle...my friend was bring him to my city for an appearance. I told him 'no way'....I had no desire to meet him at that point....that's my Mantle story.
sorry to get off the subject...I visted the Buffalo Bill museum and he was a small man judging by his clothes. A lot of the uniforms of the officers of the 7th are still around, most are of normal height for their times. David Crockett was about 5'8...some of his clothes are still around and according to his family. I guess the point is a lot of famous people have grown in height since they died. Thanks for the info Billy.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jul 29, 2006 14:48:58 GMT -6
I was a lacrosse player but a Yankee fan, primarily because they traditionally walloped the Red Sox, whose obnoxious fans surrounded me. Roger Maris would have lasered the ball to the catcher to keep the runner from scoring, and damned few risked his arm, which in his prime was awesome. I don't know if that's correct. That's what Maris would have done, I'm sure. Probably a relay for mere mortals, though.
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Post by d o harris on Jul 29, 2006 20:05:36 GMT -6
The correct answer is there was insufficient information provided to determine a correct answer. Depending upon the inning, the score, and other factors, a throw home, to third, or to second base would be correct. But, DC, you are correct that no one took liberties with the arm of Roger Maris. Maris almost qualifies as being the Reno of baseball, except that he was 180 degrees out of phase. He broke the wrong person's record, and it hung on him like a shroud. He was just a decent human being who had one great year and he was never forgiven for it.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jul 29, 2006 20:08:40 GMT -6
He was American League MVP before 61. He was the real thing before the Ruth record. It wasn't just one good year.
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Post by d o harris on Jul 29, 2006 20:29:32 GMT -6
No, it wasn't, but if it hadn't been for the one good year who would remember him now? His fame, and reputation, rests on one thing, just as Reno's rests upon one event. This is unfair, but it is the way things are.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 29, 2006 23:12:19 GMT -6
You guys start these baseball discussions just to drive me nuts, right?
Actually, I was raised watching the Yankees on TV. I remember Mantle and Maris and had a young girl's crush on Joe Pepitone. I'm disappointed by Scout's story about Mantle; that brought him down many pegs in my eyes.
Now, White Cloud anyone?
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Post by d o harris on Jul 30, 2006 2:33:31 GMT -6
No, Diane, this wasn't to drive you nuts. Actually it happened because DC pretends he isn't a baseball fan. Like I hate hot roasted peanuts and cold beer. There is something about that guy that will not allow him to admit that when the wash is on the line he really isn't very different than the rest of us. Something about a slithering reputation that must be upheld, I think.
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Post by Scout on Jul 30, 2006 5:42:29 GMT -6
ok do......Actually Maris was the American League MVP TWICE. You say he had one good year...he had two great years, and in 62 he hit 39 homers still a very good number. but he holds the American League season record for HR's...has held it for 45 years! and still does! The bb Hall of Fame has let a number of people in with batting averages near his and nowhere near the fame....it's called the Hall of FAME...he belongs in. I have three Maris autographs and no Mickeys.
Sorry to drive you nuts Diane....sorry to all for getting off the subject at hand....end of baseball talk.
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Post by d o harris on Jul 30, 2006 9:09:45 GMT -6
Scout---Jeesh, did I anywhere deny Maris was a ball player? I admit to the error of saying good, when I should have said "Great" year, but where in tarnation did I diminish his ability as a ball player. Maris belongs in the Hall Of Fame. No doubt. His misfortune was that he broke a record held sacred. Now that you are here, Scout, there are a couple of questions I'd like to ask a citizen of Memphis. In the late spring, early summer, 1954, I had the fortune, good or bad, to be posted at Millington. During that time I noticed a street that bore name of a person, and adjacent to that street was another that bore a date. Romantic that I am, I contrived a scenario in which the street was named after a corrupt, but popular, local politician and the street with a date that commemorated the day of his assassination. Can you tell me the truth of these things?
What I remember of Memphis is this. My maternal grandfather was born there. When I was at Millington I discovered where he was born, and wanted to go there. That part of the city was out of bounds to white service men, and I was never able to see the building in which my grandfather was born.
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Post by d o harris on Jul 30, 2006 9:12:52 GMT -6
Oh, yeah, one thing I forgot. Roger did it without steroids.
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Post by Scout on Jul 30, 2006 16:31:59 GMT -6
do...sorry you interpreted my comments as attack mode...they weren't. I always enjoy your posts...you seem to be a quite rational old chap. I have never heard of the street of which you speak...do you remember the part of town it was in? We had a Kellogg street hear that crossed Custer street...Custer & Kellogg...I went out to take a picture but they no longer exist. 'a corrupt but poplar politician'... we have plenty of those. We have 8 now under indictment for taking bribes from the FBI..the more things change, the more they remain the same. If you can think of the street let me know.
Diane...I drove Joe Pepitone & Whitey Ford around years ago when they were in town for a sports show....How's that for name dropping?
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