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Post by AZ Ranger on Oct 21, 2008 16:31:00 GMT -6
Need to use a saber? Sergeant Bishop fired his carbine and then discharged his horse pistol. There was not time to reload and so he drew his saber. Finding himself beset by several warriors and struck in the side by a musket ball, Bishop pointed his saber forward in “tierce point,” spurred his mount, and rushed headlong into his foes. Later he would recall that he “made his saber . . . drink blood”; the lanky sergeant hacked and parried lance thrusts, fended off blows from buffalo hide shields, somehow fighting his way back to the safety of the Dragoon encampment.A history of the 1st Dragoons, I think this is about 1859 See they were better trained. |
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Post by AZ Ranger on Oct 21, 2008 16:43:27 GMT -6
I see the sabre's best use at LBH as a close quarter defensive weapon. Even if you had a wooden baton you could still beat someone off till you got a chance to reload. The empty carbine might work but it was attached to the rider and had restricted movement on one side. In a small village you would hope to drive the Indians out or go through and then reload and do it again. I see no good results if you get half way into the village with no loaded weapons. I think it would have been over and minutes and then they would all have been closer to respond to Custer.
AZ Ranger
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Post by conz on Oct 21, 2008 19:40:49 GMT -6
Saber use: Although not effective to use a saber charge vs. NAs, sabers would have come in handy at LSH and Calhoun Hill. Too bad no one planned to be surrounded and fighting to the last man so they instead left the sabers at the Powder River Depot. bc...I very much agree with you. It is ironic that the first time the 7th Cavalry really needed sabers was one of the few times that they did not carry them! Clair |
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Post by conz on Oct 21, 2008 19:42:39 GMT -6
Need to use a saber? Sergeant Bishop fired his carbine and then discharged his horse pistol. There was not time to reload and so he drew his saber. Finding himself beset by several warriors and struck in the side by a musket ball, Bishop pointed his saber forward in “tierce point,” spurred his mount, and rushed headlong into his foes. Later he would recall that he “made his saber . . . drink blood”; the lanky sergeant hacked and parried lance thrusts, fended off blows from buffalo hide shields, somehow fighting his way back to the safety of the Dragoon encampment.A history of the 1st Dragoons, I think this is about 1859 See they were better trained. What makes you think the 7th Cavalry wasn't just as well trained? Same Regular Army, many of the same men! Same training methods... Clair |
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Post by bc on Oct 21, 2008 20:07:27 GMT -6
lew, I'd prefer an extra revolver or two also. Some of the officers were carrying 2 or 3 revolvers. Their effective range is probably less than 50 yards. When the NAs are that close, all heck is breaking loose. Between shooting at moving targets and NAs on horseback and with all the gunsmoke and dust around, the revolvers were not going to be very effective. We sometimes forget about all the gunsmoke obscurring everything. Once the NAs were within 50 yards, it would be easy to appear out of the smoke almost on top of someone almost too late to use his pistol unless he happened to be facing the NA.
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Post by lew on Oct 22, 2008 2:56:00 GMT -6
BC, I do have some issues with the 1860 U.S.
HEAVY CAVALRY SABRE, used by Custer's command. How were the sabre's carried? In the few pics I've seen of the canvas or leather enlisted men's ammo belts from the era,I notice an absence of sabre hangers on the belt. Were the sabre's attached to the horses saddles? If so the majority of troopers would have lost their sabre's when the horses bolted during Custer's portion of the fight. I used to own an original 1864 issue Ames Cavalry Sabre. I never tried to sharpen the blade, but it was so dull I could have rode side saddle all day on the blade and never receive a cut. On the reproductions used in re-enacting the steel of the blade is not very good, and most have heavy damage to the blade (nicks and deep gouges) from exchanging blows in fake combat. It must have been quite difficult to have a sharp blade.Thus you are left with the option of sticking your enemy or just whacking him up side the head. In dismounted hand to hand combat I would think using your carbine as a club would be better. Arizona Ranger is correct in that while mounted the sabre would be better for fending off an attacker,but dismounted I'm not so sure. If the Indians are so close that everyone has to drop their firing weapons and rely on giving the cold steel,its a no-win situation. Sheer numbers will prevail at that point,and it favored the Indians.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Oct 22, 2008 5:45:11 GMT -6
A Green River knife would be another choice for on foot battle.
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Post by clw on Oct 22, 2008 7:44:51 GMT -6
Interesting bit of sabre trivia.... Ask a rider why we mount from the left side. Most don't know it's a simple anachronism.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Oct 22, 2008 7:48:08 GMT -6
Interesting bit of sabre trivia.... Ask a rider why we mount from the left side. Most don't know it's a simple anachronism. What if it is mounted on the saddle? |
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Post by BrokenSword on Oct 22, 2008 7:59:29 GMT -6
clw, I thought that some horses just didn't like us right-wingers.  M |
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Post by bc on Oct 22, 2008 8:33:27 GMT -6
lew, regarding sabers: I guess it would depend upon what they are doing when they dismount. If dismounted to go form a skirmish line, the saber would probably remain on the saddle, If close to being surrounded when they dismount to fight on foot along with shooting their own horses to form some cover, then they would probably be grabbing their saber along with whatever ammo they had on the horse. I suspect the Calhoun Hill personnel were probably wouldn't grab their sabers but the LSH personnel would have.
The sabers were never meant to be a cutting device anyway. More of a poking device along with parrying the opposition sword and then having enough of an edge to slash when used with force.
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Post by lew on Oct 22, 2008 8:48:58 GMT -6
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Post by bc on Oct 22, 2008 8:55:42 GMT -6
Shotgun it is lew. However, same problem, a short range weapon would have been on the saddle with the saber unless they were preparing for short range combat. The pistol had a holster to carry it with the rifle.
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Post by clw on Oct 22, 2008 11:21:00 GMT -6
Interesting bit of sabre trivia.... Ask a rider why we mount from the left side. Most don't know it's a simple anachronism. What if it is mounted on the saddle? Don't confuse me. I just figured out the first bit. I've often contemplated the fact that while most of us are right sided, horses usually travel best when tracking left and how this effects horsemanship. Maybe the whole thing is just political. |
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Post by AZ Ranger on Oct 23, 2008 7:09:47 GMT -6
I've often contemplated the fact that while most of us are right sided, horses usually travel best when tracking left and how this effects horsemanship. Maybe the whole thing is just political.
My horses tracks best in the direction of feed. Which candidate promises more hay?
AZ Ranger
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"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they
