Did Custer expect Benteen to join him?

[elisabeth]

Many theories of the battle revolve around the assumption that Custer expected Benteen to join him: that the "come on, bring packs" message meant specifically "come to Custer".

This interpretation is frequently used to explain the right wing's deployment as holding the door open for Benteen; it's sometimes used to explain Custer's apparent delays; and it's all too often used to condemn Benteen. But is that what Custer meant?

I was glancing through Gray (Custer's Last Campaign) yesterday in search of the answer to another question, and stumbled across something I'd missed on previous readings: an oblique suggestion from Gray that it might have been otherwise. On p. 346, he says: "From Weir Peak between 3:28 and 3:30 Custer could have seen that the Sioux village was even larger than previous glimpses had revealed and that the Indians were already outflanking Reno's skirmish line, forcing it into the timber, where it could hold out, but only so long as ammunition lasted. Both findings meant that the regiment was facing a hard fight and would need Benteen's support and all the ammunition available. These were reasons enough to send, as soon as Custer returned to his command, a courier with urgent orders for Benteen to come quickly and bring ammunition." [Emphasis mine.]

The logical deduction from this is that (as we know) Reno's the one in most immediate need of ammunition. It's also clear from Gray's timeline that when Custer sends Martini with the message to Benteen, all his knowledge at that time would lead him to expect Benteen's first encounter to be with a besieged and embattled Reno, forted up in the timber and in urgent need of help. Now, Custer's selfishness may be legendary -- but are we really to believe that his order meant "ignore the fighting you see, leave Reno to be eaten up, and bring all available resources here to me, regardless of the fact that I haven't fired a shot yet"?

If so, he'd surely be guilty of criminal negligence. (Not impossible, as we again know, but a mite implausible at this stage in the game.) Isn't it more likely that he intended Benteen to do exactly what he did -- i.e. relieve Reno? It was Custer's bad luck (and Benteen's, in the long view) that Reno had by then withdrawn from the field. And yes, they could have done more. But could Custer realistically have expected Benteen to turn up, battalion and packs intact, on his own portion of the field? I may be wrong (and frequently am) but to me it seems improbable ...

Oh -- and a happy 4th of July to all!

[mcaryf]

Hi Elisabeth

I think the difficulty with your theory is that it would make Custer's further movements even more inexplicable. If he expected Benteen to go to Reno then surely he should go there also. Either through the village (actually impossible) or back via the bluffs (but he did not attempt this as far as we can tell).

Regards

mike

[rch]

Elisabeth,

I don't believe Custer expected Benteen to come to him. I think he intended that Benteen should support Reno and that the attack on the village from Reno's position be resumed. I think that when Martin was sent back Custer expected to be in the valley floor himself and to be there in a relatively short time.

However before Custer could cross the river, the number of indians on his side of the river became too large to ignore. Custer had to change the axis of his attack northward. I think the action on his part of the field could be discribed as a meeting engagement. Custer did not retreat toward Custer Hill, he attacked northward with some success until the mounting number of indians stopped his advance north of Custer Hill and forced a retreat.

Custer did not look to Weir Point for succor. Instead I think he expected to see six or seven companies of his regiment in action in the valley floor.

rch

[elisabeth]

rch --

Makes sense, especially re the attack northward. How, then, do you see the deployment of the right wing? Would you say Custer puts them in a holding pattern while he "easily" deals with the Indians he can see -- unaware of those he can't -- his idea being to mop up the visible threat with just two companies and then return to Plan A, attacking the village? Or is the right wing just as busily employed itself, countering Indians coming from south, east, and west? Because either way, it's odd that Custer doesn't use his full force, united, at any point ...

[Dark Cloud]

I don't think the plea to Benteen meant anything more than we're attacking the village, come to the vicinity with packs and join the fight.

Again, there is zero evidence that Custer was on the offensive beyond MTC, that's a construct of Custerphiles to deflect attention away from the obvious: that Reno and Custer did pretty much the same thing, attack and run, but Reno survived. I find it hard to believe the 7th ended up where it did on the world's worst cavalry ground with no cover by deliberate intent.

[elisabeth]

Small evidence, but a bit more than zero, I think. If he wasn't on the offensive, why on earth would he get himself into such a hopeless pickle?

If he was on the run from MTC onwards, he has three feasible options: (1) run back the way he came, towards his support; (2) consolidate all five companies somewhere vaguely defensible, like Calhoun; or (3) flee the field altogether in the hope of joining up with Terry. (1) and (2) he plainly didn't do; (3) is just possible, from the evidence, but only if we discount the Ford-D-excursion theory. You could read it (as I believe you do?) as the entire battalion strung out in line of march towards the north and cut down as they went. It could be; and would be satisfyingly unheroic; but too many of the Indian accounts seem to conflict with this to make it entirely convincing.

You raise an interesting thought, though -- that Custer could have cracked just as Reno did ...

[Dark Cloud]

Wounded, under fire, head for high ground at point of least resistance.

I don't think either 'cracked.' Just saying, it's all how you spin it. Custer is given every benefit of doubt, Reno zero.

Thank you for saying accounts and not testimony, but even so the time and to whom these accounts were given doesn't suggest accuracy. This fixation on heroism/not is silly. There's no reason to believe that men were different in this fight than in the one or two other battles we know about in history. Some were, some were not, most tried to survive as best they could. Eh.

[elisabeth]

I should have said "antiheroic", perhaps; I meant to refer back to your "construct of Custerphiles" complaint.

Trouble is, the Indian accounts are really all we've got to go on. (Apart from the archaeology, and you've made plain your views on that!) Accuracy of individual accounts, very likely suspect, I agree; but where there's a broad consensus on a particular event or episode, I'd have thought we could tentatively trust it. And there do seem to be quite a lot of people describing a desultory long-range fight for some time at Battle Ridge, against static soldier positions, before all hell suddenly breaks loose -- so personally I see no reason to doubt it. Or not more than I doubt any other assertions about this battle, at least ...

[greenpheon]

Don't you think that if Custer had meant for Benteen to support Reno that he would have said so?

Greenpheon

[Dark Cloud]

Don't you think if Custer meant Benteen to have joined him exclusively he'd have said so? Come on and bring the packs (not just ammo) leaves logic, which was exercised, to Benteen. The note is so general it's nothing more than protect the train, hurry up, battle's on with big village.

Which Indian account, Elizabeth, talks about "Battle Ridge" and how do you know? From LSH to Calhoun? Others say the battle was over in the time a tent pole's shadow moved, somehow meaning about 20 minutes. Given the lack of cases and what the officers said two days later that there was no sign of much organized fight (and they'd have liked to have seen it), there's at least as much evidence the battle was very short as not. No clue, myself, but it's only the most strained interpretation of 'evidence' coupled by damning the honesty of the 7th's officers, along with late arriving interpretations of Indian accounts that allows any theory of a prolonged fight to be suggested.

[Melani]

Possibly Custer was expecting Benteen to support both his own battalion and Reno, in whatever way seemed logical. The idea of expecting to see both Reno and Benteen fighting in the valley makes sense, and would have had to have taken some of the pressure off Custer. When he first got there, Benteen really couldn't have known what a desperate situation Custer had gotten into, though they probably began to get worried pretty shortly--Weir's advance would seem to show that. Reno doesn't seem to have been in any condition to worry about much except himself. There were some survivors who were convinced they could have held out in the timber much longer, and others who said Reno saved them by hightailing it when he did. That part leaves me rather confused, since I haven't yet read everything that's been written (I'm working on it!), and so have trouble evaluating these opposing perceptions. But I know for sure the method of his retreat was a real disaster.

So what if Reno had held the timber longer, long enough for Benteen to arrive, or had at least retreated in good order rather than taking off like a jackalope? What if Reno's battalion had been in good enough shape to form a combined advance toward Custer with Benteen? Would that have helped, or would they all have been dead?

[elisabeth]

Oh, DC, of course no Indian said "Battle Ridge" ...

As for the length of the battle, I have no clue either. Some of the references to a very short battle seem to apply just to the LSH portion of it; others seem to draw a distinction between what they regard as the real fighting -- the hand-to-hand stuff, quickly over -- and the overall duration of the engagement. But I use the word "seem" advisedly because, as you so often point out, we have only interpretations of interpretations for the most part. Just guessing, though: if it was all over in 20 minutes, one would have thought they'd have flooded back to deal with, or at least harry, the Reno-Benteen contingent rather sooner than they did?

Melani: yes, that's the big question. And I suppose that comes back to the matter of the duration of Custer's fight. The Weir advance certainly didn't intimidate the Indians; quite the reverse. But if the combined Reno-Benteen force could have advanced while the Custer fight was still in full swing -- it's a 50-50 call, I think. There were more than enough Indians to defeat both ... but would they have chosen to? Or would they have concluded that enough was enough, and it was time to pack up and go?

[AZ Ranger]

Why is it that Reno's withdrawal constitutes anything other than his assessment of his circumstances. Also why is it so hard to believe that Custer's battalion was wiped out on the run. If Custer realized to late that he was in a trap with a large Indian village in front and warriors pouring into his flanks using the terrain as cover for them, in which direction should he go? The greater the danger the quicker he would want to withdraw in order to remain in the fight. Unfortunately the Indians closed in before he could withdraw. Withdrawing is not synonymous with cowardice.

There is no military order or obligation that says you must remain if you enter into a trap or other conditions warrant leaving.

As far as Benteen, horses move across country at a trot in order to have the energy to engage in a fight when you get there. This would take an experienced officer under these highly stressed conditions to get his troops to remain in the trot and not run off. Also it would insure that his battalion got there at the same time. If you gallop off then fastest horses get there first and everyone is strung out making it easy for the Indians to strike the flanks. Look at the markers leading to LSH.

[Dark Cloud]

Yes, I'm being picky, Elizabeth. But to the unwary, your query suggests they did, and there is Indian testimony using our geographic names. Once that surety is embedded in the novice, it is very, very difficult to remove, just as it is to get them to realize after years of reading about Archaeology (join me in a Te Deum to Science, won't you?) that can prove this casing came from this very gun, it can't place either in the period of the battle and proves nada.

If Weir hadn't been seen on His Point, the Indians might well have spent the rest of the evening enjoying the free Home Depot Ammo Giveaway at Battle Ridge. Having no command structure, they react to Reno's men, not any sense of strategic need to remove that threat.

[elisabeth]

On the whole, I'm glad of the pickiness; it's good discipline. Apologies if any unwary were misled. I can't promise to append "what we now know as" to every geographic mention every time, though -- especially at the moment, when I'm suffering from an injured typing finger!