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Post by Jas. Watson on Jul 8, 2006 13:50:27 GMT -6
What if the first part of the scenero is the same--TWC heading over to confer with GAC...but it is TOM who get's 'whacked? Let's look at it that way for a bit...it might explain things a slightly different way (of course the end results are the same).
Also, I too would love to see the monuments in their more realistic places and numbers. Too bad we couldn't get it done somehow (I know...yeah, an act of congress....). But it might indeed lead to different interpretations.
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Post by Tricia on Jul 8, 2006 16:09:50 GMT -6
Jas--
So are you contending that TWC's mutilations might have occurred as a result of the Cheyenne women recognising him--rather than him being one of the last left standing? I mean that has always been a thought with many--the recognition aspect. Interesting idea, though.
Regards, Leyton McLean
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Post by greenpheon on Jul 9, 2006 11:36:53 GMT -6
Actually there is a letter from TWC to his niece written around May 25th, 1876 (I'm not home so I don't have the exact info to hand) in which he states that he has joined headquarters and pitched his tent with the headquarters "line". This would seem to suggest he was with GAC early in the campaign. That is why Lt. Henry Harrington was in command of Company C during the Reno scout and during the battle. Sgt Kanipe was assigned to HQs that day as an orderly and picked to take the message from among the soldiers nearby GAC, likely TWC was present but this does not mean TWC was with Company C.
Also, 2Lt Henry Harrington was junior in rank but well experienced. By the time of the LBH campaign he had already served four years in the 7th Cavalry, fought during the Yellowstone campaign of 1873 and gone on the Black Hills expedition of 1874. Combined with actions around the Heart River with Major Tilford in 1875 when reservation Sioux moved against the Arikara, as well as hunting KKK members in NC, Harrington was a veteran campaigner and due promotion to 1Lt soon. Junior rank doesn't always indicate inexperience.
Greenpheon
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 10, 2006 2:34:04 GMT -6
Kanipe was assigned to HQ as an orderly? Most grateful if you could cite your source for that.
His version of events in Graham has him riding alongside Sgt Finckle, and close enough to Sgt Bobo to pass a remark ("there are the Indians") to him -- which I'd read as implying he was riding with his troop. But if he says otherwise somewhere else ...
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Post by greenpheon on Jul 10, 2006 9:27:21 GMT -6
Elisabeth; I could be in error, I'm not at home so don't have the information at hand. But I recall that phrase. Will check when I get home.
Greenpheon
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Post by Jas. Watson on Jul 10, 2006 10:14:55 GMT -6
Jas-- So are you contending that TWC's mutilations might have occurred as a result of the Cheyenne women recognising him--rather than him being one of the last left standing? I mean that has always been a thought with many--the recognition aspect. Interesting idea, though. Regards, Leyton McLean Yes, my feelings have always been that he was 'done up' because of who he was (reognized) rather than just because he was the last man standing. I have read the accounts (don't recall which) that mention an officer 'rising from the dead' after it was all over and quickly dispatched...and being the last man. But I don't think that would necessarily rate the mutilation just because of that--if it was indeed him--if it had indeed happened that way. But I am not necessarily advocating TWC's getting wounded early on either... I just threw that out as food for thought.
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 10, 2006 10:26:21 GMT -6
The officer "rising from the dead" seems to have inspired a certain amount of awe; not impossible that he was soundly mutilated once finally killed, but it'd be more likely he'd be left alone, I'd have thought. (He was allegedly dispatched by Inkpaduta's sons. Does anyone know if the Santee Sioux went in for particularly nasty TWC-style mutilations? Might be a clue, if they did.)
TWC could have been recognised either as an abuser of Washita captives, or as the man who arrested Rain-in-the-Face, or both, so your surmise seems pretty well-founded ...
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 10, 2006 10:39:11 GMT -6
I believe Inkpaduta and/or his sons/band were known for cutting off the heads of their dead enemies. And he and/or his band supposedly committed some of the worse atrocities during the Minnesota Uprising of 1862. That's why he fled to join the Northern Sioux. And he may have been involved in some grisly killings in Iowa.
Either way he and his followers were not prone to "clean" kills.
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 10, 2006 10:41:28 GMT -6
The "whys" for TC's mutilation range from Rain-in-the-Face taking his revenge (unlikely); Cheyenne revenge for abusing their women (possible); last man standing at LBH (who knows); or he gave his life cheaply and deserved disfigurement (again, who knows).
TC was known to many of the Southern Cheyenne on the res and it is quite possible some of them took out their feelings on him.
Flip a coin on this one . . .
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 11, 2006 21:56:52 GMT -6
Forgive a brief intrusion, but this seemed as good a spot as any. I received an e-mail from a website visitor that said, in part, "I have always wondered when writers claimed that Tom was made Autie's adjutant." I asked him where he read that, but he didn't reply to that question. Whose theory asserted that Tom was adjutant (in lieu of Cooke?)? BTW, the visitor also spoke of Harrington, so I gave him a link to a certain new book about Harrington. Hope it results in a sale!
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 11, 2006 23:28:50 GMT -6
Do you think the questioner's confusing adjutant with ADC?
Welcome back from your marathon travels!
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Post by greenpheon on Jul 12, 2006 19:38:24 GMT -6
Elisabeth; That was my first thought, that he confused adjutant with aide. Also, it seems the reference to Kanipe being an orderly was an after the fact statement, as in he was appointed an orderly when he was given a message to deliver. Thus, as you say he was with Company C and either TWC rode and to him or had someone bring him up (more likely the latter) because he was a soldier TWC trusted. I then assume that Dose was kept for future use. But why Kanipe was sent and not Dose is another question. Fate?
Diane, thanks for the referral.
Greenpheon
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Post by Diane Merkel on Jul 12, 2006 23:52:05 GMT -6
You both are probably right. At first, he was complaining about Tom being named adjutant while only a 2nd lieutenant. When I asked him about that, he admitted he confused Tom with Harrington on the rank part and went on to assert again that he has read that Tom was made adjutant that day in lieu of Cooke. I think he was totally confused . . . .
Thanks for the "Welcome back," Elisabeth!
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Post by elisabeth on Jul 13, 2006 0:37:55 GMT -6
Do we totally rule out the possibility that TWC didn't have to ride back to Kanipe, or summon Kanipe forward to him -- but was actually riding with C? That's the way it reads in Kanipe's account in Graham ...
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Post by greenpheon on Jul 13, 2006 4:06:52 GMT -6
No, I'm not ruling anything out, perhaps you would quote us the passage? I'm curious.
Greenpheon
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