Terry's list?

[elisabeth]

When command of the LBH expedition was taken away from Custer, Terry apparently submitted a list of alternative commanders -- all of whom were turned down by Sherman.

Does anyone know who they were? And, if so, what Sherman's objections were to each of them?

[El Crab]

Colonel Sykes of the Twentieth Infantry and Colonel Crittenden of the Seventeenth Infantry, according to Stewart in Custer's Luck, pg. 132. Apparently Terry recommended Crittenden as his preferred choice of the two, as he was senior to Sykes. But both were eager to take the job. Sheridan (not Sherman, it seems) was the one who asked for the list, and upon seeing the choices, suggested Terry lead it. Terry agreed, and that was that.

Footnote for this info is Hughes Campaign Against the Sioux.

[crzhrs]

Terry, I believe was in charge of the whole campaign, not just the 7th. Once Custer was relieved of duty of the 7th, command was given to Reno. But after Reno exceeded his orders on his scout, command was given back to Custer

Terry was getting up in years, had a bad leg, was more of a "paper officer" and by education a lawyer. He wanted Custer because Terry knew Custer was younger, more aggressive, and had the experience. Terry, however, had to intercede with the President to get Custer reinstated with the 7th, but not as commander.

There was no question about Custer's ability to find and fight Indians, but there was some misgiving by Terry and Brisbin about Custer's leadership qualifications. Brisbin, in fact told Terry that he had no confidence in Custer whatsoever and wanted Terry to lead the 7th, but Terry thought Custer would be OK. Terry either had a soft spot for Custer and wanted to help him get reinstated and back in good standing with President or didn't want responsibility and the difficulty of a hard campaign.

[El Crab]

Custer was to be in charge of the forces marching from Fort Lincoln, Terry, as Department Commander, was to oversee the campaign. Once Custer was out as commander, that's when Terry stepped in as field commander. But it was originally to be Custer's command.

[elisabeth]

Thanks for this.

So did young Lt. Crittenden get to come along as a consolation prize, I wonder?

[markland]

"Terry, I believe was in charge of the whole campaign, not just the 7th. Once Custer was relieved of duty of the 7th, command was given to Reno. But after Reno exceeded his orders on his scout, command was given back to Custer."

Crzhrs, you touched upon a point that has had me curious. Why did Terry seem to have it in for Reno? To me, it seems as if on three occasions he took advantage of his position to figuratively slap Reno down: Reno's request to go to his family during the Yellowstone Expedition; the lack of consideration for him as replacement to GAC; the, to me, over-reaction to Reno's deviation from the strict intrepretation of his orders during the scout towards the Rosebud. Of the three, the lack of consideration for Reno taking GAC's role is the most understandable.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Best of wishes,

Billy

[elisabeth]

For such a nice man, Terry seems to have been surprisingly mean about compassionate leave. Wasn't Benteen also refused permission to go home when his little daughter died?

Yes, the reaction to the scout is out of all proportion. It would be pleasant to think Terry apologised to Reno later, when he saw the thing in its true light, but there's no suggestion that he did. According to Darling, in "A Sad and Terrible Blunder", Terry was using Reno as a cat's-paw to slap down Custer -- giving him the scout as a reminder to Custer that if he didn't behave, Reno could be given command. [But Reno WAS in command?? I'm confused!] If Darling's right, this was pretty cruel too: getting Reno's hopes up like that.

Do we know of any concrete reason for Terry thinking poorly of Reno? As far as I know, he'd done nothing much, either good or bad, since he joined the regiment; nothing to blot his copybook. Maybe Terry just didn't like the cut of his jib. Did they have any dealings with each other during the CW? Anything there that would make Terry dubious about him?

[crzhrs]

Terry's reaction to Reno going much further on his scout and possibly tipping off the Indians that the military was in the area was the reason for Custer taking over the 7th.

Custer in fact was so upset he said since you've already disobeyed orders you might as well have kept going and attacked the Indians.

Hmm . . . Could Custer have done the same during the LBH(?)

[crzhrs]

Elisabeth:

Good point about the possible "slap-down" of Custer. Terry needed Custer . . . but he needed a Custer who was going to follow orders and not "cut loose once he got away from Terry". Giving Reno command of the 7th may have been a sign to Custer to do as your told and/or ordered and don't go off chasing Indians without regard to the other commands.

It seems Reno's deviation of orders on his scout was an opportunity to relief him of command and give it to Custer, who after all, Terry felt was far more experienced and better at finding and fighting Indians than Reno.

[El Crab]

I'm just not convinced that Reno was in command of the regiment. I thought Custer passed up on the Reno scout, and had previously led a scout on the expedition.

So was it Terry, as Department Commander, that denied Reno and Benteen's requests for leave? Because Benteen seems to have blamed Custer for it. Then again, he blames Custer for everything.

[markland]

elcrab said:

I'm just not convinced that Reno was in command of the regiment. I thought Custer passed up on the Reno scout, and had previously led a scout on the expedition.

So was it Terry, as Department Commander, that denied Reno and Benteen's requests for leave? Because Benteen seems to have blamed Custer for it. Then again, he blames Custer for everything.

Kate died in 1869 and at that time the 7th was in the Dept. of the Missouri whose commander was Sheridan. Terry was commander of the Dept. of the Dakota then so there would not have been any interaction. It had to have been either GAC or Sheridan, or perhaps the Adjutant General's Office, who turned down Benteen's request for leave.

As far as Terry putting GAC in his place. I thought placing Reno in command of the scout was Terry's effort to corral his somewhat unruly subordinate.

Best of wishes,

Billy

[El Crab]

Well, depending on what you read, Custer didn't want to lead the scout because he felt it was pointless and nothing would be found. As did other officers. Then again, Stewart says Custer wanted to command it, but since he already scouted the Little Missouri it was given to Reno.

[d o harris]

Terry's refusal to grant leave to Reno upon the death of his wife may have had a sound military basis. Co D and Co I were assigned to the boundary survey. Weir was present, but Keough was on six months leave. In addition to the cavalry Reno had five Cos of the 6th infantry as part of his command that totalled over 500 military personnel and quartermaster employees.
The rank of Captain, perhaps, in Terry's mind, was insufficient for a command this size, or he may have deemed any captain available as unqualified.

[d o harris]

Custer was in command of the 7th from the time it left Ft. Lincoln, as is made clear by General Field Order No. 1., May 14, 1876, (Official Communications, Overfield) directing scouts to report to Lt. Colonel Custer for duty with his regiment.

[d o harris]

Custer was originally to command the entire Dakota column, with Terry to remain in St. Paul. When Custer was removed Reno applied to Terry for command of the Dakota column. When Terry denied his request Reno committed a serious breach of military protocol, by-passed Terry and applied directly to Sheridan for command of the entire column. Sheridan politely denied the request.
By-passing the chain of command in order to overturn the decision of a superior officer is not the sort of behavior that enhances one's career, or is likely to win the esteem and good will of that superior.