7th Cavalry: America's Foreign Legion?

[elisabeth]

The proportion of immigrants in the ranks of the 7th Cavalry was par for the course in the post-CW US army. But it's striking how many of its officers, too, were foreign-born.

Cooke: Canadian.
Keogh: Irish.
Nowlan: Irish by blood, but born in Corfu.
Mathey: French.
DeRudio: Italian.
McIntosh: doubly exotic, half-Cherokee, half-Canadian.

Did other regiments have an equally cosmopolitan mix? Or was this indeed as unusual as it looks?

If anybody knows, I'd be grateful for the info. And also if anyone knows how many of the above took out American citizenship. (I know Keogh did, quite early on -- though I forget the exact date at present; but it'd be interesting to know if any of the others truly were "soldiers of fortune"!)

[crzhrs]

I would assume that most of the military at that time had people from other countries . . . whether you had to be a citizen of the US is another matter.

I believe that the current military rules are that you must be a US citizen, but I'm not 100% sure.

I wonder how the multi-national military in those days affected moral and esprite de corps. Remember Benteen's disparaging comments about Martini? And De Rudio was made fun of because of his background, in addition to his tales (tall or otherwise) about his European ancestry.

[stevewilk]

Elisabeth, the frontier army was largely composed of immigrants....American born men saw no need, with the Civil War over, to serve in the army. The west was mostly deemed a wasteland back east; a place far, far away and Indians no threat to places like Boston, New York or Chicago. In addition there was public scorn to deal with; the soldier was looked upon as a deadbeat who would not work. Soldiering was a low paying job that most American boys did not want; hence it fell to the immigrant who, due to discrimmination, ("no Irish need apply") may not have been able to find any other job. The army offered these men food, clothing and shelter as well as an opportunity to learn English and perhaps save a few bucks over an enlistment period.

"Of the 183,659 men who enlisted for army service in the decade 1865-75, 86,593 were not American citizens at the time of their enlistment. Ireland provided the largest contingent (35,643 men), followed by Germany (23,127), then England, Canada, and Scotland. Even tiny Switzerland provided 1,502 immigrant men during the decade. And there was one Turk, two Sandwich Islanders, two Chinese and one Egyptian. Foreigners recruited in the Regular Army in the ten years following the Civil War totalled 47% of whom 20% were Irish and 12% German."

From: _Crazy Horse Called them Walk-a-Heaps_ by Neil Baird Thompson. p. 112

Perhaps Billy can find out who the Chinese, Turkish and Egyptian guys were? I'm curious to know.

[stevewilk]

Sorry, you were inquiring about officers.....I don't have the figures but my guess is that the percentage of foreign born officers did not equal that of enlisted men. Remember a large percentage came from West Point; these men were more likely to be American born. You had to have some political connections to secure an appointment. The remainder were commissioned from civil life and also a certain number from the enlisted ranks.

If we take the 7th as a model, the six you listed were but six of over forty officers; about 15%. Other regiments most likely mirrored this ratio.

[stevewilk]

From Utley's _Frontier Regulars_ p. 18:

"Even so, officers elevated from the ranks were fairly common. Most, veterans of Indian service in the 1850s. had won their commissions in the Civil War. Many claimed foreign origins, especially Irish and German. In 1874, for example, the Army Register carried 193 officers commissioned from the ranks, or about thirteen percent of the line leadership. Eighty-seven of these were of foreign birth. They were a tough, experienced, hard-drinking lot. Few rose above captain, and few survived into the 1880s, but while they lasted they imparted a distinctive tone to the frontier companies."

One such man was German born Sebastian Gunther, 4th Cavalry. Gunther enlisted as a private in the First Cavalry in 1855, fought Cheyennes on the plains prior to the Civil War where he rose to commissioned status,winning brevets for action at Nashville and the capture of Selma, Alabama.

Gunther later was involved in the Cheyenne outbreak of 1878-79 and was afterward brought up on charges of cowardice by a junior officer. Like Utley indicates, Gunther never rose above captain, retiring in 1884.

Taking the 1874 figures, I would guess that foreign born officers accounted for ten percent or less of the total commissioned corps.

[fred]

Elisabeth--

Steve's figures on enlistments in the army as a whole almost perfectly mirror those of the 7th Cavalry. There were 576 enlisted personnel at the battle. Of that number, 247 (42.9%) were of foreign birth, 104 (18.1%) of whom came from a country where English was not the native tongue. The most predominant foreigners were from Ireland (96), Prussia/ Germany (76), England (27), Canada (11), & Scotland & Switzerland (7, each). There was 1 man from Wales (I assume he spoke English, right?), 1 from Australia, Spain, Russia, Poland, Greece, & Hungary.

Of the American born, NY held the highest plurality w/ 68 (11.8%), then PA, MA, OH, IN, KY, IL, & MD. There was 1 man from each of DC, DE, SC, KS (that would have been Billy Markland!), & TX. (Elisabeth-- this is a stupid question, but you get the American abbreviations, right?)

Then, another interesting little tidbit is that 8 of the officers-- Yates, Weir, French, Moylan, TWC, Godfrey, McIntosh, & Mathey-- all served, at one time or another, as EM. I would assume DeRudio could be added to that list. You would not see that in today's U.S. Army.

And, no; you do not have to be a citizen of the U.S. to serve in the army.

Incidentally, I had read somewhere (then promptly forget "where") that DeRudio, after the attempted assassination of Napoleon III, was sent to Devil's Island & escaped from the island. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that?

Best wishes,
Fred.

[markland]

"Perhaps Billy can find out who the Chinese, Turkish and Egyptian guys were? I'm curious to know."

Not sure about those troops but there was an private from Egypt Greece killed with Custer. His name was Alexander Stella.

OK, of the 1312 dead for which I have birth information, here are the stats for country of origin:

American 659
Swiss 21
Scotish 21
Irish 299
German 166
English 53
French 10

There are a bunch of onesy-twoseys from Norway, East Indies, Poland, Russia, Austria, Bohemia, Denmark and Belgium.

The enlistment years are from 1863-1870 with the bulk, over 90%, having enlisted in 1866.

That doesn't answer Elisabeth's original question about the make-up of the officers in other regiments. We would have to get "snap-shots" of the officers for certain periods and then look in Heitman. Hmmmmmm....

Best of wishes,

Billy

[fred]

Hey Billy--

I show Stella as having been born in 1853 in Athens, Greece. Am I wrong?

Best wishes,
Fred.

[markland]

Arggghhhhh....forgot to edit THAT part. You are 100% correct, Stella was from Athens, Greece and was 21 when he enlisted on 12/01/1874.

Thanks for the correction!

Billy

[elisabeth]

Thanks, all -- fascinating stuff. So, looks as if the 7th probably didn't have more foreign-born officers than most other regiments. (I'd wondered if the 7th was seen as some kind of a dumping-ground!)

Sorry to have digressed with the "citizenship" red herring. I know they didn't have to be citizens; I was just mildly intrigued to know how many of them had bothered ...

Interesting, Fred, about the number of officers who'd risen from the ranks. Surprising that there was such ill feeling about Moylan in that context. But then I suppose he was the only one who'd actually served as an enlisted man in the 7th; the others had all left it behind them long before? (And thanks for asking about the state abbreviations; yes, I get them, but there are always one or two I have to puzzle over for a minute or so!)

I've read that DeRudio story too. I think he claimed it was true -- one of those "hair's-breadth 'scapes" that Benteen was so sniffy about -- but you never can tell with him ...

[stevewilk]

"Army policy formulated in 1867 called for one fourth of the vacancies in the grade of second lieutenant to be filled from the enlisted ranks." Utley, _Frontier Regulars_ p. 18.

This is where the bulk of the foreign born officers came from; most having served in the Civil War. Frenchman Phillip Regis de Trobriand was one foreigner who achieved a general's rank during the war and a colonelcy afterward on the fronier.

Another act of 1878 made more commissions available to enlisted men. However it produced only twenty commissions and by 1890 was pronounced a failure, providing no examination system, instead relying on the judgement of company commanders.

There probably was a prejudice against "rankers" by the West Point cadre. I don't know what military policy is nowadays but I tried to go that route with the Air Force but could get no endorsement from my CO.

[fred]

Billy--

I keep telling you: you're the best! Between the 2 of us, we can rule the world of names (I guess I'd have to include Hammer, Smalley, Overfield, & my favorite, Ephriam, in our club).

Elisabeth--

Was there resentment about Moylan before or after the battle? Apparently, once the fiasco arrived on Reno Hill-- & after the arrival of Benteen & crew-- Moylan "appeared whipped," probably not presenting the kind of "face" you'd want to see from one of your officers at that stage of the battle.

And as far as DeRudio is concerned, even "d o harris"-- on another thread, questions his veracity. I have to take ol' eagle-eyed DeRudio w/ a grain of salt & if that Devil's Island escape business came from him, then I guess I'd really question it.

Steve--

I don't know about the air force, but the army promoted what were called "mustangs," enlisted personnel promoted to officer (usually 2LT) during combat operations. Audie Murphy was a mustang; so was the late David Hackworth. The normal route today for an officer in the army is West Point (& those guys hold everyone else w/ a certain measure of condescension [read, contmept]) & then ROTC. Usually, OCS is only put together when there is a great shortage of officers, like Vietnam. OCS is more hit-or-miss, in my opinion. ROTC, you're either RA (that was my route) or you do your time & raus! The USMA or promotion from the ranks was probably the only way to officer-hood after the CW (political appointment, maybe?).

Best wishes,
Fred.

[Diane Merkel]

We interrupt this thread for an important announcement . . . . OK, it's just a commercial.

LBHA member Cesare Marino of the Smithsonian wrote an excellent article about DeRudio in the Winter 2004 issue of Research Review. See the description of the article at www.lbha.org/Sales/reviews/RR2004.htm. Unfortunately, we only have four copies left. (Sorry, Lou Rawls died today so I'm very emotional.)

If anyone wants one, e-mail me at [e-mail]. The cost is $10 for LBHA members and $12.50 plus postage for non-members.

Diane

[fred]

Diane--

Do I get a year's supply of the "Newsletter"?

SAVE ONE... I'LL TAKE IT. How do I get the vig to you?

Fred.

P.S.-- Does this require the special, "official" e-mail?
FCW

[markland]

"I keep telling you: you're the best! Between the 2 of us, we can rule the world of names..."

God, between the PFH, a realization that I have let my Ft. Phil. Kearny interests slide and normal life, I have to read that Ephraim could use some transcription help. Remind me to stay away from this darned thing. Which, I think I will this afternoon and go hunt dead soldiers at the National Archives. I have been back to work 3.5 days after two weeks off and if feels like 3.5 years.

Have a nice day dodging egret "bombs."

Billy