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Post by fairbn on Aug 8, 2007 22:54:48 GMT -6
Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I am from Canada and own 2 guns that were picked up from Sioux reservations in Manitoba in 1958 and 1983. I have an 1873 Springfield carbine sn 48--- that shows heavy use, twisted off front and rear sights, good wood, missing sling bar and swivel, all typical of Indian use. I also own an 1873 Colt saa in 45 cal serial number 8---. This gun has 5 iron and brass tacks in the heel of one grip, not decorative, likely a tally. Shows heavier pitting on one side and I was told it was a battlefield pickup in 1877 from Montana and carried to Kanapawakpa First Nation reservation in Manitoba by Sioux running to escape from the US military. This reservation is the home of William Eagle, great great grasndson of Sitting Bull. Mr Eagle is an accomplished artist and is proud of his heritage. I also own a ceremonial pipe carved by William Eagle. I also own a first edition in good condition of A Life of General George A Custer published 1876, shortly after the battle. I am looking for a good home for these items and will sell them in the next few months. From the research I have done both guns are authentic in every way with correct marks etc. All numbers match on the saa except the trigger guard which is brass and the backstrap which is iron. The carbine is all original and correct. Anyone seriously interested can contact me at fairbn@hotmail.com. I will not split up this collection. I will email full pics to interested parties. No triflers please. Happy hunting.
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j52
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by j52 on Aug 10, 2007 17:04:04 GMT -6
Do you have the requisite permit to sell the guns?
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Post by AZ Ranger on Aug 11, 2007 6:25:02 GMT -6
What permit?
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Post by harpskiddie on Aug 11, 2007 10:20:52 GMT -6
In Canada, one doesn't require any permit to sell a firearm privately, but the purchaser needs a Firearms Acquisition Certificate to purchase same. Buying the carbine would likely be no problem, the revolver perhaps more difficult. A lot depends upon who the purchaser is and what his background has been. International sale is a whole 'nother matter.
Of course, as with any firearms transactions, there are more under-the-table private deals than are ever registered [I'm guessing here, from the number of handguns illegally possessed by those who use them illegally].
I live in the Greater Vancouver area, which has more than its share of shootings and illegal weapons seizures. I know that the laws are quite different in the U.S.
Gordie, always keeping it real by playing the clown, now you're nowhere to be found.........................
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Post by AZ Ranger on Aug 12, 2007 20:36:03 GMT -6
I don't know of a US permit to sell privately either.
AZ Ranger
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j52
New Member
Posts: 32
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Post by j52 on Aug 13, 2007 20:29:52 GMT -6
This is from the federal government of Canada website: 1995 Firearms Legislation 2. COMPONENT PROFILE (cont'd)
2.2 Legislative and Regulatory Component (cont'd)
2.2.2 Measures to Control Access to Firearm (cont'd)
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2.2.2.2 Transferring Firearms The regulations specify the information that must be provided, and the steps that must be followed, when individuals or businesses sell, barter, loan or give away firearms. For most firearms sales or transfers, the parties will need to provide their names, addresses and firearms license numbers. For handguns and other restricted or prohibited firearms, the purpose of acquisition must be provided. Additional requirements will apply in the sale or transfer of restricted and prohibited firearms. When the transfer of a firearm takes place, a registration certificate for that firearm will be issued to the new owner.
The first time that a previously registered firearm is transferred on or after January 1, 2003 will include a requirement that the firearm be physically verified to confirm the accuracy of CFRS information about the firearm. Verification is expected to be carried out in most cases by a community volunteer knowledgeable about firearms[9] who will inform the Registrar of the results. Businesses will be responsible for verifying all firearms they sell. There will be no charge to gun owners for verification. This is from the Ontario government: An Act to regulate the sale of imitation firearms
Assented to December 21, 2000
Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Legislative Assembly of the Province of Ontario, enacts as follows:
Definitions
1. In this Act,
“convertible starter pistol” means a device designed for signalling that,
(a) discharges a blank cartridge,
(b) can be adapted for use as a firearm, and
(c) when so adapted can discharge a live cartridge; (“pistolet de départ convertible”)
“deactivated firearm” means a device that,
(a) was designed or adapted to discharge,
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second, or
(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second, and
(b) has been permanently altered so that it is no longer capable of discharging any shot, bullet or other projectile; (“arme à feu neutralisée”)
“firearm” means a firearm as defined in section 2 of the Criminal Code (Canada); (“arme à feu”)
“imitation firearm” includes any object other than a starter pistol to which section 2 applies or a deactivated firearm to which section 3 applies, if the object,
(a) could reasonably be mistaken for a firearm but is not a firearm or a replica firearm as defined in section 84 of the Criminal Code (Canada), or
(b) is a firearm but is not designed or adapted to discharge,
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second, or
(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 metres per second; (“fausse arme à feu”)
“transfer” includes provide, barter, give, lend, lease or rent. (“cession”, “céder”)
Restriction re transfer
2. (1) No person shall buy, receive by transfer, sell or transfer a convertible starter pistol.
Search and seizure
(2) If a person has sold or transferred a convertible starter pistol contrary to subsection (1) or is suspected of having done so, subsection 158 (1) of the Provincial Offences Act shall be deemed to permit a justice of the peace issuing a warrant to authorize the police officer or person named in the warrant to search for, seize and carry before a justice of the peace not only the convertible starter pistol that the person sold or transferred but also any other convertible starter pistols in the person’s possession for the purpose of sale or transfer.
Offence
(3) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $50,000.
Forfeiture
(4) If a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (3), the court shall also order any convertible starter pistol seized from that person under subsection (2) or at common law forfeited to the Crown.
Restriction re purchase of deactivated firearm
3. (1) No individual shall purchase or receive by transfer a deactivated firearm unless he or she is at least 18 years of age and at the time of purchase or receipt presents valid identification in accordance with section 5.
Restriction re sale of deactivated firearm
(2) No person shall sell or transfer a deactivated firearm to an individual unless the individual is at least 18 years of age and presents valid identification in accordance with section 5.
Reliance on documentation
(3) A person who sells or transfers a deactivated firearm to an individual on the basis of the documentation described in section 5 is not in contravention of subsection (2) if there is no apparent reason to doubt the authenticity of the documentation or that it was issued to the individual providing it.
Search and seizure
(4) If a person has sold or transferred a deactivated firearm contrary to subsection (2) or is suspected of having done so, subsection 158 (1) of the Provincial Offences Act shall be deemed to permit a justice of the peace issuing a warrant to authorize the police officer or person named in the warrant to search for, seize and carry before a justice of the peace not only the deactivated firearm that the person sold or transferred but also any other deactivated firearms in the person’s possession for the purpose of sale or transfer.
Offence
(5) A person who contravenes subsection (1) or (2) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $25,000.
Forfeiture
(6) If a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (5), the court shall also order any deactivated firearms seized from that person under subsection (4) or at common law forfeited to the Crown.
Restriction re sale of imitation firearms
4. (1) No person shall, in the course of running a business, sell or transfer an imitation firearm to an individual unless the individual is at least 18 years of age and presents valid identification in accordance with section 5.
Exception
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply with respect to a temporary transfer of an imitation firearm to an individual to permit the individual to use the imitation firearm on the business premises or in an area that is under the control of the business.
Reliance on documentation
(3) A person who sells or transfers an imitation firearm to an individual on the basis of the documentation described in section 5 does not contravene subsection (1) if there is no apparent reason to doubt the authenticity of the documentation or that it was issued to the individual providing it.
Search and seizure
(4) If a person has sold or transferred an imitation firearm contrary to subsection (1) or is suspected of having done so, subsection 158 (1) of the Provincial Offences Act shall be deemed to permit a justice of the peace issuing a warrant to authorize the police officer or person named in the warrant to search for, seize and carry before a justice of the peace not only the imitation firearm that the person sold or transferred but also any other imitation firearms in the person’s possession for the purpose of sale or transfer.
Offence
(5) A person who contravenes subsection (1) is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $15,000.
Forfeiture
(6) If a person is convicted of an offence under subsection (5), the court may also order any imitation firearms seized from that person under subsection (4) or at common law forfeited to the Crown.
Identification
5. (1) Either of the following two types of identification is acceptable for the purposes of sections 3 and 4:
1. Valid identification issued as required by subsection (2) that has the individual’s photograph and age or date of birth.
2. Valid identification issued as required by subsection (2) that has the individual’s age or date of birth and a valid permit issued by the chief firearms officer for Ontario that states that the individual named in the permit may purchase a deactivated firearm, imitation firearm or both, as the case may be, without presenting photo identification.
Issuance of identification
(2) Identification for the purposes of paragraph 1 of subsection (1) must be issued by,
(a) the Government of Canada;
(b) the government of a province or territory in Canada;
(c) a municipality in Canada;
(d) an agency, board or commission of a government or municipality described in clause (a), (b) or (c); or
(e) a foreign government or an agency of a foreign government.
Issuance of permit
(3) The permit described in paragraph 2 of subsection (1) shall be issued to every applicant who is at least 18 years old and who submits to the chief firearms officer for Ontario a document,
(a) stating that the applicant objects on religious grounds to having his or her photograph taken; and
(b) signed by a person who is of the same religion as the applicant and who is eligible under subsection 20 (3) or (4) of the Marriage Act to be registered as a person authorized to solemnize marriage.
Same
(4) The document required under subsection (3) shall be in a form provided or approved by the chief firearms officer for Ontario.
Commencement
6. (1) Subject to subsection (2), this Act comes into force on the day it receives Royal Assent.
Same
(2) Sections 3 and 4 come into force on the day that is 90 days after the day this Act receives Royal Assent.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Aug 13, 2007 20:51:54 GMT -6
I don't see the reference on a "firearm" as defined in (1.). I see converted starter pistol, imitation, deactivated firearm, etc with restrictions but not "firearm" alone. The only reference to firearm is to where its definition can be found elsewhere. Maybe I didn't read it close enough.
If I am correct in my reading of what has been posted the Springfield and the Colt do not fit those categories.
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Post by davehancock on Oct 7, 2007 12:15:19 GMT -6
There is a picture of the 'missing' revolver. This picture is of a black handled revolver; which is present in the gun rack of the Custer private quarter, Fort Lincoln, Dakota Territory, 1874. Bob Palmer wrote and article, published in the Old Army Press, 1975, Ivory or Pearl Handled Revolvers. Doug Quary can revist the article, which should still be in his files. The "Webley" Buldog did not appear until 1879 or later. All specifications for Webley's is located in the Webley Story. Futher to Lord Paget, according to the caretaker of the estate, there is no memoir to his ever giving a weapon to Custer. According to John Dorner, NPS, Custer owned a McDougal, Galland and Summerville Patent 49. Galland was a Belgian Gunsmith, which means that the pistol may have Belgian Die Marks. Summerville, I believe, owned an Iron Foundry, and I believe the frame was made of iron. I do not know where McDougal fit in. Patent 49 was taken out by Stanton in 1867, a British Patent, which he extended, but did not file. Patent 49, I believe, was for the free wheeling cylinder operation of the 442 (44 British Gage) carridge pistol. davehancock@juno.com
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Post by tsorenson2 on May 15, 2011 19:29:24 GMT -6
i have a Webley Bulldogs that exact gun that custer used at big horn. This not a replica. I can find the value of this bulldog that i have.Maybe i have custer gun.
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Post by sun4us on May 17, 2011 14:11:24 GMT -6
Wonder why. The Indians had acted in self-defense.
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Post by usglfvet on Jun 24, 2011 21:31:35 GMT -6
Back in the early 90's while at downtown Disney or Disney village we came to a memorabilia shop that had one of Custer's pistols for sale. It was in a glass case with both a letter of authenticity from Lloyds of London and a copy of a Quartermaster sheet with saddle, bedroll gloves etc. and pistol serial # signed by Custer. I should have bought it when I saw it and gave it too much thought. After the trip when we got back to Tn. I called the store and it was already sold. Find it, it's out there somewhere........
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jun 27, 2011 9:22:54 GMT -6
The laws over here are so tough on guns, to own one you have to go through a process of being vetted by your Doctor, and I am only talking about shotguns, if you apply for a license you must have a strong box for the weapon and have in writing an area were you can fire it. if you get caught carrying a knife you can go to jail. Regards Ian.
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Post by usglfvet on Jul 7, 2011 8:36:19 GMT -6
The laws over here are so tough on guns, to own one you have to go through a process of being vetted by your Doctor, and I am only talking about shotguns, if you apply for a license you must have a strong box for the weapon and have in writing an area were you can fire it. if you get caught carrying a knife you can go to jail. Regards Ian. Then Don't Live There!
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Post by Yan Taylor on Jul 7, 2011 8:39:27 GMT -6
So you suggest I move, to own a gun ?.
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Post by usglfvet on Aug 2, 2011 10:58:03 GMT -6
So you suggest I move, to own a gun ?. No, I suggest you move to a less opressive place where simple rights and freedoms are enjoyed. What else besides gun/knife ownership are you missing out on? Where is it you will you draw the line in the sand? When they tell you you can't own a vehicle or that you may only have 1 child? I enjoy my rights and freedoms. I suppose those who never had them don't miss them, hence ignorance is bliss. I would not live where I did not have the rights and freedoms that I enjoy today. To each his own. Some do well in captivity.
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