Jimbo
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 4, 2006 22:51:10 GMT -6
I have recently discovered some old books on Custer that I had misplaced years ago concerning his biography, military service, ultimate demise at LBH Battlefield, etc. and while I was rereading these books & examining all the photos & illustrations, A thought occured to me as I was looking at photos of Custer's guns that were illustrated in these publications that, according to the description of the particular weapon shown, it was mentioned who presently owned the particular piece saying "courtesy of so and so collector" or "out of the collection of so and so". Some of them were still in the possession of family members, also, if I remember correctly. Illustrated in various books were several of his side arms( pistols & rifles). Thus the question then is: if these weapons are actully in these private collections and family decendants, such as his British Galland & Summerville double action English pistol; his 50-70 sporterised Model 1866 Springfield rifle; and his Remington rolling block rifle and also a Remington new model cal 44 cap & ball pistol and a pair of Smith & Wesson pistols ( all three, cased) and some others, what was he actually carrying during the battle, because those particular weapons would have been captured by the Indians after the battle when the Indians went in to loot & mutilate the bodies. Were any of his weapons ultimately retrieved from any of the Sioux and Cheyenne at a later date when the Indians finally capitulated later on? I rather doubt it, and if so, they wouldn't have been in such nice condition. Tom Custer was also presented one of those British pistols by the Brirish ambassador also, and it is in a private collection according to my books. Both English pistols were presented in wooden cases with all accessories too and the photos show them in the original cases, looking like new. Obviously then, neither George or Tom had these pistols in their personal possession at that time! Anyone out there have any suggestions or corrections to make, as I am now really baffled!
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Post by elisabeth on Nov 5, 2006 6:05:21 GMT -6
No knowledge, just guesswork -- but perhaps he had the sense to take only weapons that could use government-issue ammunition?
Some people's weapons were retrieved later; allegedly a sergeant remembered finding Keogh's 'two gold-mounted ivory-handled revolvers, and a Spencer sporting rifle" at Slim Buttes. [Langellier/Cox/Pohanka, Myles keogh, p. 157, n. 5.] So it's not impossible that some of Custer's guns could have been recovered ...
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Post by AZ Ranger on Nov 5, 2006 9:02:17 GMT -6
I believe Custer carried a 50-70 and brass cases were found near his body. He also is described as carrying the bulldog revolvers. Officers were allowed multiple horses and often provided their own equipment- Field glasses, sabre, firearms, saddle, horse, nd mess.
AZ Ranger
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Post by Vern Smalley on Nov 5, 2006 21:07:37 GMT -6
When the Model 1873 Colt .45 Single Action Army revolver was first issued, it used self-contained cartridges (enclosed in a copper alloy called Bloomfield gilding metal, with an internal Benet primer). The men used cap-and-ball revolvers prior to that, and greatly mistrusted the Colt revolvers with their new-fangled cartridges. Those who wanted to were allowed to carry their cap-and-ball revolvers in their saddlebags as backups but were required to carry their new Colts in their holsters. Thus some cap-and-ball revolvers were "in the 1876 Battle," but not necessarily used. Lt. Cooke's Model 1860 Remington New Army revolver was subsequently recovered and sold on e-Bay a couple of years ago. As I recall, the seller alleged that it "was in the Battle." Does this help?
Can anyone give me a reference that 50-70 brass cases were found near Custer's body? I'd like to read more about it.
Vern Smalley
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Post by AZ Ranger on Nov 6, 2006 20:59:59 GMT -6
With Custer on the Little Bighorn page 76 "Under his body was found four or five brass cartridge shells which...." In my post I did not say .50/70 brass cases were found only that brass cases were found. Brass cases are consistent with a firearm using .50/70 cartridges. Custer was reported to have been carrying a Remington Rolling Block in .50/70. Brass cases are not consistent with .45/(55 or 70 ) cartridge cases being used in the 1873 Trapdoor Springfield firearms issued to the 7th.
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Post by George Armstrong Custer on Nov 6, 2006 22:39:46 GMT -6
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Jimbo
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by Jimbo on Nov 7, 2006 23:28:52 GMT -6
Thanks for all the replys, all of interest & informative; especially Mr. G. A. C.'s suggestion to read that earlier thread, as that is a rather comprehensive & seemingly complete compilation in it's analysis by various members, etc. I appreciate it.......
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