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Post by AZ Ranger on Feb 21, 2018 8:46:45 GMT -6
Robb I fear you have been left behind in regards to modern communication which is the goal. Right?
ICYMI maybe this is 2F4U
HTH
EOM
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Post by montrose on Feb 21, 2018 10:43:23 GMT -6
For several years, I have hoped that poster robb would drop the immaturity and make a meaningful contribution, to these boards, or to life. If he ever makes a meaningful post, great, let's try to deal with him as a mature, educated contributor.
He will not, because he can not.
I am happy to discuss topics related to LBH. I have no idea why anyone responds to this troll. He is holding us back, I recommend we move on. He has crippled this board.
Respectfully,
William
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Post by AZ Ranger on Feb 21, 2018 13:27:26 GMT -6
William, I fail to see why anyone in their right mind follows you, let alone takes instructions from you. You have not contributed one original thought to this board, just platitudes and cliches. You're a burnt-out case, a cartridge shell utterly spent. For your own self-esteem, it's time you said goodbye...! Robb B3
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Post by Diane Merkel on Feb 21, 2018 13:59:18 GMT -6
Robb a/k/a pequod is going to be banned in a moment. I apologize for not taking action sooner. Thanks to all for bearing with us through another troll attack.
Diane
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Post by herosrest on Feb 23, 2018 5:01:44 GMT -6
For several years, I have hoped that poster robb would drop the immaturity and make a meaningful contribution, to these boards, or to life. If he ever makes a meaningful post, great, let's try to deal with him as a mature, educated contributor. He will not, because he can not. I am happy to discuss topics related to LBH. I have no idea why anyone responds to this troll. He is holding us back, I recommend we move on. He has crippled this board. Respectfully, William HR, This obsession with TIME is a 20th and 21st century conundrum, and is not necessary to understand the battle of the LBH. Fred Wagner and John Gray are chasing ghosts when they insist on providing precise locations of combatants on the Greasy Grass. When anyone falls into the whirlpool of TIME studies, they deserve exactly what they get, criticism and parody. A ship at sea needs to use TIME for navigation, but cavalry units in the 19th century, not necessary..! Robb 7th Cavalry did not preposition Greasy Grass?
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Post by fred on Feb 23, 2018 6:25:09 GMT -6
HR, This obsession with TIME is a 20th and 21st century conundrum, and is not necessary to understand the battle of the LBH. Fred Wagner and John Gray are chasing ghosts when they insist on providing precise locations of combatants on the Greasy Grass. When anyone falls into the whirlpool of TIME studies, they deserve exactly what they get, criticism and parody. Interesting. "Herosrest" quoted this from robb, but when I tried to find the original post, I could not. Regardless... Robb's position on "time" enters the realm of the ludicrous and to me simply represents someone else who has neither the time nor the ability to figure it out for himself and must, therefore, attempt to tear down the work of those who "had" and "did." Contrary to what Robb says, without understanding the time events took place, without understanding who was where at what time, the entire series of events becomes distorted and indecipherable. It changes the length of the battle; it distorts Custer's movements-- or in the case of the so-called "45-minute-hiatus," leaves one scratching one's head-- it changes the actions and temperaments of individuals; it colors and confuses personalities; it creates cowards where none may have existed; it distorts the entire speed, atmosphere, and tenor of events; and it changes the entire event from a speed-raced military conflict into an untimed chess match. Robb-- in my opinion-- has both misjudged people on this site (and I have told him that on the phone) and has now dragged himself down to the level of the uninformed and obtuse. He also has a penchant for chasing unsubstantiated and unlikely will-o'-the-wisp tales rather than grounding arguments in reality. At one time I was amused; it is now becoming cloying and tiresome... especially attacks on people who have "done" and who I, personally, admire. Diane is correct: it may be time. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 23, 2018 7:58:07 GMT -6
Interesting. "Herosrest" quoted this from robb, but when I tried to find the original post, I could not. Regardless... Robb's position on "time" enters the realm of the ludicrous and to me simply represents someone else who has neither the time nor the ability to figure it out for himself and must, therefore, attempt to tear down the work of those who "had" and "did." Contrary to what Robb says, without understanding the time events took place, without understanding who was where at what time, the entire series of events becomes distorted and indecipherable. It changes the length of the battle; it distorts Custer's movements-- or in the case of the so-called "45-minute-hiatus," leaves one scratching one's head-- it changes the actions and temperaments of individuals; it colors and confuses personalities; it creates cowards where none may have existed; it distorts the entire speed, atmosphere, and tenor of events; and it changes the entire event from a speed-raced military conflict into an untimed chess match. Robb-- in my opinion-- has both misjudged people on this site (and I have told him that on the phone) and has now dragged himself down to the level of the uninformed and obtuse. He also has a penchant for chasing unsubstantiated and unlikely will-o'-the-wisp tales rather than grounding arguments in reality. At one time I was amused; it is now becoming cloying and tiresome... especially attacks on people who have "done" and who I, personally, admire. Diane is correct: it may be time. Best wishes, Fred. There are insurmountable difficulties with the time operated by military units from Fort Lincoln and, I believe, those out of Ellis. Those difficulties are long contemplated since Frederick Whittaker turned his pen to 'Complete' and his analysis of timing. It was amongst the earliest if not the first and lacking the plethora of subsequent revelations which evolved partisan blaming. There was no accurate or reliable 'official' time operated by 7th Cavalry or the Dakota column. The only reliable rate of march data was provided by Benteen for his battalion. Definitive analysis based upon and derived from these fundamentals is specious and regardless of sublime enthusiasm the original endeavour cannot be mirrored reliably or scientifically. Such consideration is inordinate and can only be thus. The history is social study and its military constituent is basic, simple and mundane. Custer could not pull a rabbit out of a hat and his chesnuts were roasted. Throughout Americanisation of the continent, those who were in peril were always aided by those who could. Did that occur on 25th June 1876? Robb gave comment and insight. Who would have him repent?
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Post by fred on Feb 23, 2018 8:13:27 GMT -6
There are insurmountable difficulties with the time operated by military units from Fort Lincoln and, I believe, those out of Ellis. Those difficulties are long contemplated since Frederick Whittaker turned his pen to 'Complete' and his analysis of timing. It was amongst the earliest if not the first and lacking the plethora of subsequent revelations which evolved partisan blaming. There was no accurate or reliable 'official' time operated by 7th Cavalry or the Dakota column. The only reliable rate of march data was provided by Benteen for his battalion. Definitive analysis based upon and derived from these fundamentals is specious and regardless of sublime enthusiasm the original endeavour cannot be mirrored reliably or scientifically. Such consideration is inordinate and can only be thus. The history is social study and its military constituent is basic, simple and mundane. Custer could not pull a rabbit out of a hat and his chesnuts were roasted. Once again, another poorly crafted and uninformed post by the master of the art. And all this time I believed it was an American art form: an attempt to tear down with no suitable, viable or intelligent replacement. The only speciousness involved is the speciousness of the crafter. As usual, our silly little boy cherrypicks because reality bites him where it hurts: his distorted beliefs and prejudices. A proper study of "time" is not only possible... but is the element necessary to shatter old myths... it is the element necessary to prove or to place events within their proper context. Time becomes the apple falling from the tower. And it is not laden with wormholes. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 23, 2018 8:22:29 GMT -6
Good Lord fred, we could get into the minutae of timing and why? You are obviously proud of what you did. Please act that way. This was odd, I was searching for the time of the place quotes............. link
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Post by fred on Feb 23, 2018 10:39:04 GMT -6
You are obviously proud of what you did. Please act that way. I am... and I do. I simply welcome the challenge; it makes me more sure of what I do. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by crzhrs on Feb 23, 2018 14:23:43 GMT -6
Re: T.J. Stiles:
Stiles' book "Custer's Trials . . ."
After reading the above book which I found pretty good I was bothered by Stiles' constant attacks on Benteen. Stiles had very little good (if any) to say about Benteen and at every opportunity criticized and/or used insulting adjectives regarding him.
When an author has a personal beef regarding a historic figure it takes away from the rest of the book. Non-fiction can be just as questionable as fiction if an author has an agenda.
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Post by fred on Feb 23, 2018 14:53:17 GMT -6
Re: T.J. Stiles: Stiles' book "Custer's Trials . . ." After reading the above book which I found pretty good I was bothered by Stiles' constant attacks on Benteen. Stiles had very little good (if any) to say about Benteen and at every opportunity criticized and/or used insulting adjectives regarding him. When an author has a personal beef regarding a historic figure it takes away from the rest of the book. Non-fiction can be just as questionable as fiction if an author has an agenda. Horse, They all do; usually both Reno and Benteen. It seems to go with the territory and it is primarily because they accept the assess meant of others rather than deal with the issue themselves. Over the years Benteen and Reno have been painted with the same brush and it will never change no matter how much good scholarship goes into the effort. If Stiles had put as much effort into researching Benteen as he did Custer, one might expect a different outcome. Since this book is a Custer-effort, however, I simply elided the Benteen references, chalking them up to ignorance. Hope you are doing well, Tom. Nice to see you here once in a while. Kinda brings back the old days. Very best wishes, Fred.
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 26, 2018 7:34:48 GMT -6
Joshua,
I read your book last week. Bought it for Kindle and I was right it would make good Summer/beach reading. It would make a good basis for a screen play. I enjoyed an easy read, questioned a few facts, but as you said it was fiction. The overall story followed what played out leading up to the 25th of June and the 25th itself. I particularly liked your epilogue.
Thanks for joining us here and don't be a stranger.
Regards, Tom
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 26, 2018 8:19:46 GMT -6
Joshua,
Something I should have addressed above. Your treatment of Herendeen not being sent through Tullock's Creek. Nice mention. This act cost Gibbon and Terry a day as they waited for Herendeen. While the Montana column struggled with rough terrain between Tullock and the LBH river they also sent scouts up Tullock to meet Herendeen.
Regards, Tom
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Post by herosrest on Feb 26, 2018 20:29:35 GMT -6
Terry and Custer had intelligence from the 1865 expeditions and maps which were updated by Gillespie in 1876, as per the Brown map. They also had the report and silk map which McClernand would have made during the recon 0f 24th April to 1st May; in marching down the Bighorn to Fort C.F. Smith, through Rotten Grass and Lodge Grass into Little Bighorn valley and over the June battleground into Tullock's Forks at some five miles from the Little Bigorn. Thus it was understood by the Dakota Column that the Tullock drainage lay little more than five miles from the Little Bighorn's big bend and that a large camp had been located near Benteen and the mouth of Lodge Grass in 1875. Prior to McCleland's recon information, understanding of Tullock's Forks was that available from Maynardier's march down it to Lame Deer near Busby. On the 23rd June 1876, Sitting Bull's camp stretched along the east bank of the Little Bighorn from the site of the later town of Benteen to the Reno crossing area at Ford A. On the 24th June 1876 the camp moved to where it stood when 7th Cavalry attacked. During the afternoon of 23rd June, Custer's Crow scouts followed the hostile trail discovered during Reno's scout and investigated at least the eastern reaches of Tullock's forks before returning to advise Custer that the hostile camp lay for certain, on the Little Bighorn. According to Harper, the Sioux camp at that time, split up and large numbers of the families moved away undetected under escort of a thousand warriors into Lodge Grass and on towards the Powder River. The relevant pages of Appendix PP. (1877) link from 1361. Page 1359 is rather interesting. It is Maguire's itinery.
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