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Post by benteen on May 1, 2017 14:39:11 GMT -6
Forum Members, I have always thought of Capt Keogh as a Battalion Commander of Cos I C L. However, someone asked me why I believed that, what was my source. I thought it was a fair question. So I took out a couple of my books as references and I was surprised to see that one listed him as a Battalion Commander the other as I Company Commander. I looked at two more books with the same result. I would like to ask you do you think he was a Company or Battalion Commander and why. Thank You Be Well Dan PS..I know this is not earth shattering gut what the heck the boards a little slow now  |
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Post by edavids on May 1, 2017 20:30:17 GMT -6
Forum Members, I have always thought of Capt Keogh as a Battalion Commander of Cos I C L. However, someone asked me why I believed that, what was my source. I thought it was a fair question. So I took out a couple of my books as references and I was surprised to see that one listed him as a Battalion Commander the other as I Company Commander. I looked at two more books with the same result. I would like to ask you do you think he was a Company or Battalion Commander and why. Thank You Be Well Dan PS..I know this is not earth shattering gut what the heck the boards a little slow now Company commander by 'permanent assignment', battalion commander short term ans as needed. |
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Post by Colt45 on May 2, 2017 6:38:37 GMT -6
There is no definitive evidence Keogh was a battalion commander after Custer went up the bluffs. It is an assumption that has been made due to the fact Benteen was a battalion commander (his 3 companies taken on the left scout), and Reno with his 3 companies sent to cross the river and attack. It is an assumption based upon the location of the 3 companies assumed to have been under Keogh's command, but in reality there is no proof either way that Custer assigned 3 companies to Keogh. The conventional battle theory uses this assumption for the ford B theory, in that Keogh held 3 companies on the LNC area while the other 2 companies went to ford B.
The theory of 5 companies moving to ford D, with a subsequent withdrawal by company does not assume Keogh was a battalion commander, nor does it refute the possibility. In any event, Keogh may or may not have functioned as a battalion commander.
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Post by Yan Taylor on May 2, 2017 8:47:14 GMT -6
Here is an old doc containing the 7th cavalry, it maybe out of date as I don't think they used the wing system in 1876, but I maybe wrong, anyway it has Keogh down as a company commander;  |
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Post by herosrest on Jun 7, 2017 12:59:31 GMT -6
Here is an old doc containing the 7th cavalry, it wasn'y out of date - they used the wing system in 1876. It has Keogh as a company commander; and leading the first battalion of the right wing which was led by Reno. The journalist who accompanied the regiment published similar information a couple of days before departure from FAL. I'll try and hunt up the article. Wing structure as reported by surviving officers, was anulled by Custer on 21st June due, some think that this was due to the rear end problem. Reno, Benteen and Godfrey reported the anullment. Edgerley stated that Custer formed the regiment as four battalions on 25th June.  Source - catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008898673Kellogg, that's the name. |
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Post by benteen on Jun 7, 2017 15:48:55 GMT -6
HR,
Thank you. It would seem that according to the 7th Cavalry roster of the day, that Capt Keough was the CO of the 1st battalion. Hence a battalion commander.
Be Well
Dan
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Post by herosrest on Jun 7, 2017 17:40:25 GMT -6
It was probably an Irish thing.  |
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jun 8, 2017 10:38:45 GMT -6
I think it shows it was dissolved shortly after crossing the divide. I think we are confusing temporary assignments with permanent structure. The formation of the battalions in the newspaper is for the march. Custer changed that for the movement to contact. That would have ended the temporary assignments.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Post by benteen on Jun 8, 2017 12:36:34 GMT -6
I think it shows it was dissolved shortly after crossing the divide. I think we are confusing temporary assignments with permanent structure. The formation of the battalions in the newspaper is for the march. Custer changed that for the movement to contact. That would have ended the temporary assignments. Regards AZ Ranger Steve, I thought we had this thing cleared up. Keogh was a battalion commander. Then you have to screw it up with facts and common sense Semper Fi Be Well Dan |
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Post by edavids on Jun 8, 2017 13:50:20 GMT -6
I think it shows it was dissolved shortly after crossing the divide. I think we are confusing temporary assignments with permanent structure. The formation of the battalions in the newspaper is for the march. Custer changed that for the movement to contact. That would have ended the temporary assignments. Regards AZ Ranger Steve, I thought we had this thing cleared up. Keogh was a battalion commander. Then you have to screw it up with facts and common sense Semper Fi Be Well Dan Since when was the newspaper a legitimate documentor of military organization? |
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Post by benteen on Jun 8, 2017 15:48:17 GMT -6
Steve, I thought we had this thing cleared up. Keogh was a battalion commander. Then you have to screw it up with facts and common sense Semper Fi Be Well Dan Since when was the newspaper a legitimate documentor of military organization? Sure David your another one with your damn facts and common sense just like Steve Be Well Dan |
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Post by herosrest on Jun 9, 2017 12:08:31 GMT -6
The relevance of the reproduced newspaper article stems from origin which gives, Quote, ' ...it is interesting to go back into the files of a Bismarck news-paper, (sorry that this is getting messy but i'm eating cherries as I type) published by C.A. Lounsberry, which carries reports from a special correspondent who was in camp with the boys in blue.. The entire article about Kellogg's article, is linked as image files. link 1link 2link 3Most students are not aware that Marcus Henry Kellogg was a trained telegrapher. Copies of Oliver Knight's published research are available from AbeBooks. Link
Mark Kellogg Telegraphed for Custer's Rescue. Lounsberry was a CW hero and promoted from the ranks - to Lt. Col. He was instrumental in infiltrating undercover reporters at Ft. Rice to expose the tradership scandal which led to Belknap's resignation. Linda Slaughter, the Bismarck Post Mistress, was initially blamed for the exposures. Lounsberry and Custer were good friends and contemporaries. |
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sandy
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Post by sandy on Jan 1, 2018 20:36:14 GMT -6
There is also somewhat legitimate historical evidence for Keogh commanding a battalion that day. In Graham's abstract of the RCOI proceedings, Capt. Moylan says:
"During the morning of June 25, battalion assignments were made. Maj. Reno, Capt. Benteen, Capt. Keogh, and Capt. Yates each had one."
He then goes into specifics, talking about how each of the battalions had three companies except for Yates's, which had two, that B Company was with the pack train, etc. Moylan explicitly mentions this as being on the morning of the 25th, when the actual battle assignments were made.
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 8, 2018 9:00:01 GMT -6
There is also somewhat legitimate historical evidence for Keogh commanding a battalion that day. In Graham's abstract of the RCOI proceedings, Capt. Moylan says: "During the morning of June 25, battalion assignments were made. Maj. Reno, Capt. Benteen, Capt. Keogh, and Capt. Yates each had one." He then goes into specifics, talking about how each of the battalions had three companies except for Yates's, which had two, that B Company was with the pack train, etc. Moylan explicitly mentions this as being on the morning of the 25th, when the actual battle assignments were made. Benteen states he was not present for the other assignments. What makes us think that Moylan was there but not Reno? Regards AZ Ranger |
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 8, 2018 9:04:11 GMT -6
"I know nothing personally of it myself" is the testimony of Moylan at the RCOI. Which is what I thought we would find.
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