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Post by mackilla on Feb 10, 2017 9:16:13 GMT -6
Hello
Is there any good map of markers on Little Bighorn battlefield? I can't find it anywhere on internet.
Kind regards
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Post by fred on Feb 10, 2017 9:42:35 GMT -6
Is there any good map of markers on Little Bighorn battlefield? I can't find it anywhere on internet. No. The closest thing to accurate is in my book, but those are edited down for accuracy of numbers. That is a plat in one of the Fox-Scott books, but it does not seem to be included in later editions. Also, it shows only the marker numbers with no topographical features, so if you are not extremely familiar with the terrain, the map is useless. If you PM me (do you know how that works?) and tell me precisely what you are interested in, I should be able to help you. I doubt seriously there is anyone who has done more work on the markers-- other than the archaeologists-- than I have... and if there is, I haven't heard of him. Best wishes, Fred.
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dgfred
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by dgfred on Feb 10, 2017 11:02:07 GMT -6
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Post by mackilla on Feb 10, 2017 12:04:04 GMT -6
Thank you werry much. Could you tell me name of Book?
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Post by fred on Feb 10, 2017 14:49:07 GMT -6
Could you tell me name of Book? www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7954-2Below is one of the maps from the book. There are several more like it. A word of caution, however. The depiction is where the troops fell, not necessarily where the precise markers are set. For example, the Mark Kellogg, 1SG Butler, and CPL Foley markers you see today are not precisely where those men fell. The map is more accurate. In addition, there is no marker for William Brown, yet I show one on these maps. Also, as I may have alluded too earlier, there are 253 markers where 210 men fell, and many of them have been tightened up to prevent vandalism. If you are just looking for a map where the markers are set, these won't be of much help. If you are looking to see where men died, you will not find anything more accurate than these maps. I hope all this helps. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 11, 2017 3:55:01 GMT -6
Kellogg's was down near what is called Gibbon's Ford. Additionally two were across Hwy 212 an old photo exists of this, it now resides in Tucson, AZ.
Regards, Tom
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Post by Colt45 on Feb 11, 2017 8:06:38 GMT -6
Here is a map from 1891 that shows the battlefield before roads or buildings appeared. It shows markers on the topo map, plus locations without the terrain features. The relief lines indicate 25 foot changes. Fred, notice that there are actually 3 gaps along battle ridge. The one closest to the monument had markers at one time, the other is near the word Keogh, and the third is just short of Calhoun Hill. I would think this increases the importance of the gap you found by three. It would have been very easy for Indians to hit Keogh through the first two, and the rear of Calhoun from the third. The 25 foot elevation changes at the gaps is very significant. Make sure you view the map with a program that can zoom in. Attachments:
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Post by fred on Feb 11, 2017 14:24:46 GMT -6
Colt,
Thank you. I have seen that map before. Now, all I have to do is figure out where and to see if I have a copy of it.
Maybe in Donahue's book...?
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by herosrest on Feb 12, 2017 12:20:23 GMT -6
Ducemus In 1891, R. B. Marshall mapped the Custer Battlefield and charted battlefield markers for the United States Geological Survey (his map was not published until 1908). I believe the map was the first ever produced by USGS. Source type stuffMarshall was one of the nation's most important people and went on to immense and great things. He was a big beaver.
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dgfred
Junior Member
Posts: 69
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Post by dgfred on Feb 13, 2017 9:35:26 GMT -6
Could you tell me name of Book? www.mcfarlandbooks.com/book-2.php?id=978-0-7864-7954-2Below is one of the maps from the book. There are several more like it. A word of caution, however. The depiction is where the troops fell, not necessarily where the precise markers are set. For example, the Mark Kellogg, 1SG Butler, and CPL Foley markers you see today are not precisely where those men fell. The map is more accurate. In addition, there is no marker for William Brown, yet I show one on these maps. Also, as I may have alluded too earlier, there are 253 markers where 210 men fell, and many of them have been tightened up to prevent vandalism. If you are just looking for a map where the markers are set, these won't be of much help. If you are looking to see where men died, you will not find anything more accurate than these maps. I hope all this helps. Best wishes, Fred. Hey Fred. This map really helps. Thanks so much for posting it. What are the thoughts on the markers down in Calhoun Coulee and on Finley-Finckle Ridge as far as a North-South battle? Where exactly is the 'South Skirmish Line'?
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Post by fred on Feb 13, 2017 12:15:38 GMT -6
This map really helps. Thanks so much for posting it. What are the thoughts on the markers down in Calhoun Coulee and on Finley-Finckle Ridge as far as a North-South battle? Where exactly is the 'South Skirmish Line'? dgfred, First off, thank you. I am glad it helps. That is the "B" map in the four-map sequence; the others also show where troops fell. I have eliminated the spurious markers in the work I have done and have used the guidelines set forth by the archaeologists, so I am on fairly solid ground with those eliminated. I have also used Indian accounts to place other markers, so I am pleased with the results shown. I have identified or broken down 14 discreet areas where markers have been placed. Two of those areas are Calhoun Coulee and Finley-Finckle Ridge. There are nine in Calhoun Coulee, all of which should be accurate for bodies. Finley-Finckle Ridge has 19, but only 17 are actually where troops fell, so two are spurious. You can count the accurate ones on the map (in case I was not clear, each cross represents one soldier and the approximate place he fell). Those in Calhoun Coulee are 121, 122, 124, 125, 126, 127, 128, 253, and 254. I have names-- mostly arbitrarily chosen-- attached to all of them. On Finley-Finckle, the non-spurious markers are 129 - 134, 136 - 145, and 147. Only a few of those 9 + 17 have actual names attached to them on the markers, but I have added a couple more where research shows I would have a good argument for the names at those locations. These markers-- in my opinion-- obviate any north-south battle flow and are part of the reason I believe the whole theory is utter nonsense. The South Skirmish Line (SSL) is the northern ridge forming one wall of Deep Ravine. It runs roughly east-west, starting at the elongated base of Last Stand Hill. If you look at my map, you will see Last Stand Hill toward the upper left. Head down that hillside-- at about 1830-- toward Deep Ravine. You will see a dark contour line. That line-- along with a couple lighter ones-- forms a blunt point as it nears the ravine. That is the South Skirmish Line. Hope this all helps. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by wild on Jan 18, 2018 19:39:03 GMT -6
Hi guys hope everyone is well
Really this is a case of too much information being a dangerous thing. History would have been better served if only company and HQ markers had been erected. It is amazing what some people can do with 3 markers in a line. Best Richard
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 19, 2018 6:57:18 GMT -6
Hi guys hope everyone is well Really this is a case of too much information being a dangerous thing. History would have been better served if only company and HQ markers had been erected. It is amazing what some people can do with 3 markers in a line. Best Richard Richard Good to see you are OK and posting, Regards Steve
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Post by wild on Jan 19, 2018 9:16:17 GMT -6
Thanks AZ never far away Best Richard
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Post by dave on Jan 19, 2018 10:20:26 GMT -6
Welcome back Wild. Regards Dave
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