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Post by callmeconrad on Mar 26, 2015 10:40:54 GMT -6
I ran across this while doing some other reading; a 1880 speech by Union Gen. James H. Wilson. Wilson a cavalry officer in the West and East and was a major part of the Battle of Nashville, led Wilson's Raid, and was one of the few to beat Forrest. Mostly it's an account of his time with the Army of the Potomac late in the war but at the end of his speech he talks about the lessons he learned from his experience. Since I don't want to bore you with full quotes I'll paraphrase: Some of Wilson's lessons are basic stuff: cavalry is best used against the flanks and rear of a foe and should be kept together for maximum effect, and he notes that when it comes to intelligence gathering "a few squadrons can do it as well as a whole division." Also not surprising if you know his Civil War track record is his belief that cavalry should be mounted infantry, that the horse should "mainly be relied on for rapid transportation", and that to get the best cavalry you should take your best infantry regiment and teach them to ride and care for their horses. Most interesting are his views on armaments. Wilson finds no value in the sabre, but wants repeating arms as cavalry equipment because "the essential principle is that cavalry, as well as infantry, soldiers should throw the greatest number of shots possible in the least space of time." (No single-shot carbines for him!) He goes on to state that "there are only two arms that cavalry should use in modern warfare, - the repeating magazine gun, either rifle or carbine, and the revolver." It's only slightly related to LBH, but helps give a view into the thinking of some cavalry officers at the time. I'm guessing he would have taken the Gatling guns along. I've linked straight to the page of his speech where he talks about his "Lessons Learned" here: hdl.handle.net/2027/hvd.hx4iqe?urlappend=%3Bseq=100Cheers, conrad
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Post by fred on Mar 26, 2015 11:02:55 GMT -6
I believe Wilson was one of the better Union cavalry officers of the war, and I would tend to agree with what he said, though again, adding the saber is simply giving the soldier one more weapon, even if it is used to stir the embers making coffee. I believe, as well, Shelby Foote spoke highly of Wilson in Foote's own Civil War writing.
I would tend to disagree with you, Conrad, however, regarding the Gatling guns. Remember, Reno had tremendous difficulty with them on his scout and if nothing else, that may have turned Custer against their use, especially since Custer was built for speed and the packs were enough of a drag.
Really good information.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 26, 2015 11:20:56 GMT -6
In Wilson's writing you see the doctrinal underpinning of armored and mechanized forces we have today.
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Post by welshofficer on Mar 26, 2015 11:52:34 GMT -6
Didn't Wilson have an impact on the 7th...?
Wasn't GAC disparaging Wilson, Benteen's old mentor, the reason for the original breach between GAC and Benteen in 1867...?
WO
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2015 13:06:52 GMT -6
Didn't Wilson have an impact on the 7th...? Wasn't GAC disparaging Wilson, Benteen's old mentor, the reason for the original breach between GAC and Benteen in 1867...? WO Correct. The story is that GAC had some unpleasant things to say about Wilson and from that point on their relationship was frosty.
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Post by tubman13 on Mar 26, 2015 13:55:15 GMT -6
Didn't Wilson have an impact on the 7th...? Wasn't GAC disparaging Wilson, Benteen's old mentor, the reason for the original breach between GAC and Benteen in 1867...? WO I posted it this morning, rather lengthy read about Benteen.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 26, 2015 14:55:11 GMT -6
I don't believe Custer had much good to say about anyone that ranked him and Wilson did as a Major General, and I think he was on the seniority list higher as an LTC until he resigned in either 70 or 71. He came back again as a BG for the Span-Am War and Boxer Rebellion, and went out at the statutory age. I am not sure though if he drew retirement pay. He had less than 20 years in uniform.
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Post by tubman13 on Mar 26, 2015 15:49:17 GMT -6
Top drawer dude, did not need the money. One of what we need today he served to serve!
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Post by tubman13 on Mar 26, 2015 15:54:51 GMT -6
Top drawer dude, did not need the money. One of what we need today he served to serve!
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Post by welshofficer on Mar 26, 2015 16:34:01 GMT -6
I don't believe Custer had much good to say about anyone that ranked him and Wilson did as a Major General, and I think he was on the seniority list higher as an LTC until he resigned in either 70 or 71. He came back again as a BG for the Span-Am War and Boxer Rebellion, and went out at the statutory age. I am not sure though if he drew retirement pay. He had less than 20 years in uniform. QC,
GAC would have been better served by focussing on the unhealthy nepotism and clan atmosphere within his own regiment.
Too many senior officers were either happy to be away from the regiment (e.g. Merrill, M Sheridan) or never to have served a day with it (e.g. Ilsley, Tourtellotte)
WO
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Post by AZ Ranger on Mar 27, 2015 5:46:29 GMT -6
I think Wilson had it right on armament and vision of mounted infantry. I believe the saber an important defensive weapon if the trooper is properly trained and has the desire to be proficient. Reading Ryan's account paints a picture of a trooper that has training nor the desire to be proficient in the use of weapons. I buy my own extra ammunition and equipment that I feel will first increase my chance of surviving and second do a better job.
I am currently in a transition from getting paid to helping the Department to organize a reserve program. I am still a commissioned officer but do a lot more field work which is what I started out to do. I got to spend several days on the Arizona Strip looking for illegal trap sets. The truck I had broke down but the other officers continued working and it resulted in a case where 15 citations were issued. I figure it will take me a few years to make the transition.
I am still an AZPOST instructor and will be teaching in the upcoming Watercraft School.
Regards
AZ Ranger
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Post by callmeconrad on Mar 27, 2015 7:48:49 GMT -6
I believe Wilson was one of the better Union cavalry officers of the war, and I would tend to agree with what he said, though again, adding the saber is simply giving the soldier one more weapon, even if it is used to stir the embers making coffee. I believe, as well, Shelby Foote spoke highly of Wilson in Foote's own Civil War writing. I would tend to disagree with you, Conrad, however, regarding the Gatling guns. Remember, Reno had tremendous difficulty with them on his scout and if nothing else, that may have turned Custer against their use, especially since Custer was built for speed and the packs were enough of a drag. Really good information. Best wishes, Fred. Hi Fred, Interestingly, the speaker in Chapter 1 of the book, Col. Benjamin W. Crowninshield, one of Sheridan's aide-de-camps and later a historian, was pro-sabre, but felt that "a wooden or leather scabbard lined with wood is better, would be noiseless, [and would] keep the sabre bright and sharp; for the sabre is supposed to be sharp." Also, I really enjoy reading Shelby Foote. I wish I could write history the way he does (or you do). I understand what you mean that the Gatling guns were a major hindrance; Wilson mentions that he had to dump his artillery in a river while in a tight spot around Petersburg. This may have made him less inclined to be burdened in such a way again. However Wilson seems so pro-firepower that if he had command of the 7th I'm sure he would have been very tempted. Cheers, conrad
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Post by callmeconrad on Mar 27, 2015 7:52:56 GMT -6
In Wilson's writing you see the doctrinal underpinning of armored and mechanized forces we have today. Hi QC, Definitely. I'm impressed how his suggestions were completely vindicated by the Boers 20 years later. Wilson was really looking ahead! Cheers, conrad
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Post by callmeconrad on Mar 27, 2015 7:55:44 GMT -6
Didn't Wilson have an impact on the 7th...? Wasn't GAC disparaging Wilson, Benteen's old mentor, the reason for the original breach between GAC and Benteen in 1867...? WO You're right! Because my LBH reading pales in comparison to most here, I hadn't read about the origin of the Custer/Benteen feud (I just always figured two alpha dogs...). Thanks! conrad
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Post by welshofficer on Mar 27, 2015 8:28:13 GMT -6
Didn't Wilson have an impact on the 7th...? Wasn't GAC disparaging Wilson, Benteen's old mentor, the reason for the original breach between GAC and Benteen in 1867...? WO You're right! Because my LBH reading pales in comparison to most here, I hadn't read about the origin of the Custer/Benteen feud (I just always figured two alpha dogs...). Thanks! conrad Conrad,
Feud is too strong a word, or GAC would have found a detached posting for Benteen. GAC didn't lose any sleep over Tilford and Merrill being absent.
But Benteen certainly was wary of GAC's behaviour, certainly from Washita.
WO
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