newn
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by newn on Jan 22, 2015 10:57:24 GMT -6
Facts on the Forgotten War: *The DOD estimates that 3,067 to 3,838 of 7,860 MIAS are STILL IN NORTH KOREA *On March 21, 2012 the Obuma Admistration suspended talks with North Korea over the repration of US MIAS * In OCtober 2014 the North Koreans announced they would move the remains of 5,000 MIAS en masse So How can you help..? Congress is the voice of the people Let your Congressman know of Obama legacy in regard to MIAS; their wives, their chidlrenm their relations and their familes. Have Congress reopen talks with North Korea to bring our sons back home..
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2015 12:37:06 GMT -6
You might wish to start by amending the Constitution to give Congress the power to conduct the foreign policy of the United States. That power currently resides with the President of these United States, as it has since 1789.
When you enter a fight, it is always wise to arm yourself, in this instance arming yourself with fact instead of the kneejerk that just kicked you in the ass.
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 22, 2015 12:58:37 GMT -6
Well said newn, your other post regarding Custer books is good for visitors as well.
Regards, Tom
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Post by tubman13 on Jan 22, 2015 13:02:22 GMT -6
Chuck, you are absolutely correct, regarding POTUS, however It can't hurt to have congress apply pressure. Not sure this POTUS feels or responds to pressure. Too well insulated by party and press.
Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2015 14:02:49 GMT -6
Tom: Lord knows that these remains have lingered there long enough, and they should be returned to our shores. That is a given. No it cannot hurt to write, call, or e-mail your Congressman, for collectively they are the pulse of the people. That too is a given.
I will not comment on the feeling and response levels of the President. He has not shared that with me. Suspect he won't
It should be obvious though that our relations with North Korea have steadily deteriorated over the last seventy years, and we are not dealing with a government in the conventional sense, but rather a family run cult of personality. Rational dialogue cannot be had with the irrational.
North Korea is using those POW remains as a bargaining chip. Were we to say this afternoon that OK North Korea, we will lift sanctions and allow you unimpeded to join the militarized nuclear age, those remains would be on the five o'clock plane from Pyongyang to San Francisco. It takes willing partners to enter a Quid Pro Quo. Would you be a willing partner in the scenario I described? Probably not
So it is not the message or the sentiment behind the message Newn has laid on us. It is the fact that he showed up at a gun fight, armed with the knife of misinformation and ignorance of how the United States Government works. That alone harms any cause he may be rightly championing.
As a sidebar it would be helpful for you, Newn, and others to read book one of Millett's three volume history of the war in Korea "The War For Korea 1945-1950 - A House Burning" to realize just what a bunch of lunatics is minding the store up thataway. If you think the period of 50-53 is the Forgotten War, which it is, the period 45-50 is one well off the grid, but understanding the period is the looking glass one must pass through to attempt an understanding of today.
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Post by quincannon on Jan 22, 2015 18:33:55 GMT -6
By the way Newn, it has not escaped my notice that you purposefully misspelled the name of the President of the United States.
NEVER take a cheap shot at the President of the United States, whomever that person may be, in my presence again. I don't give a rat's patoot if you like the man, detest the man, or play golf with the man. He is the President of these United States, and it is the office that must be respected. The only person cheapened by such actions is you. You make a cheap ass of yourself. IS THAT CLEAR. IT'S THE OFFICE DUMBSHIT.
Now in contrast I want you to look at Tom's response to me. I can assure you that knowing Tom as I do, he has little love for the policies of the current president. What you will notice though that Tom crafted his remarks around policy and attitude, and did not resort to a personal belittling of either man or the office he holds. He knows better, for where we came from a derogatory remark about the President is a criminal offense under UCMJ, as it is for governors, cabinet officers, members of Congress, ambassadors and several other types of office holders.
So you can debate or be critical of policies until the second coming of The Christ. Debate is what this country is built upon. You just do not make a derogatory remark about the office or the man who happens to hold the office at the time. You live in a country where the people have a say in who holds that office. The issue is decided by those people and the vote of a College of Electors. The highest number of votes wins. The present incumbent won two elections by very decent margins. He wins. He is President. You don't have to like it, but that's just the way it is. If you don't like the system move somewhere else.
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newn
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by newn on Feb 6, 2015 9:06:30 GMT -6
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 6, 2015 9:45:11 GMT -6
newn, thanks for the above.
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Post by quincannon on Feb 6, 2015 10:47:29 GMT -6
OK Newn the ball is in your court. Lay out exactly how YOU would go about repatriating those fallen, based upon the following conditions:
1) You are constrained by the Constitution of the United States. You may not violate it.
2) You cannot give away the store in the process.
3) Then tell me why, if you hold the current president accountable, that you do not seem to hold those who came before equally accountable,and they include Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton and Bush. If you conclude that the current president does not care, you must also hold those who came before equally culpable.
You are letting the objective, repatriation, cloud your vision of means and methods.
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newn
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by newn on Feb 6, 2015 11:09:15 GMT -6
In 1918 to 1919 the US Armed Services fought a war in North Russia; nearly a quarter of our casualties were left behind-they would still be there but thanks to the VFW-with the help of Congress-brought 2/3 of them home even though relations between the US and the USSR did not officialy exist.
After the Korean War Armistice during Operation Glory remains of our troops were brought back from North Korea even though relations between the US and North Korea did not officialy exist.
The latest agreement of repration were all set to be in place in March 8, 2012 when talks were "Suspended" March 21, 2012
The facts are avaialble to John Q Public-to either elect a President who supports the current status of "suspended" talks or elect a President who wishes to reopen talks
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 6, 2015 12:02:26 GMT -6
newn, Chuck does not disagree with your or my desire to get these bodies returned for families as well as national honor. We as a nation do not desire, ever to leave our hero's behind. We do however have our hero's buried all over Europe. There was a decision made not to bring them home. This is not the case with NK, we have tried over the years to repatriate those hero's. They are holding them hostage for money and concessions. We as a nation should never pay ransom for hostages or for those bodies. Never walk down the middle of a one way street into oncoming traffic. When will the next corrupt little despot try to run you down.
Regards, Tom
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Post by tubman13 on Feb 6, 2015 13:06:24 GMT -6
newn, Chuck does not disagree with your or my desire to get these bodies returned for families as well as national honor. We as a nation do not desire, ever to leave our hero's behind. We however have our hero's buried all over Europe. There was a decision made not to bring them home. This is not the case with NK, we have tried over the years to repatriate those hero's. They are holding them hostage for money and concessions. We as a nation should never pay ransom for hostages or for those bodies. Never walk down the middle of a one way street into oncoming traffic. When will the next corrupt little despot try to run you down. Regards, Tom
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Post by quincannon on Feb 7, 2015 0:03:15 GMT -6
Tom: I don't know if I should laugh or weep.
Ignorance like newn has displayed about how his own government functions saddens me, for the nuts and bolts of the process is what high school civics classes are for.
Ignorance of world affairs, well that's what newspapers (meaning all media) are for. Of course you have to read them or listen to them.
What is really evident though is that newn does not particularly care for the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I wonder if he ever thought about what would happen if the President concluded a deal to get these remains back, and at the same time, gave nothing of value in return. I would think that would be good for a seven to ten point bounce in the Presidents approval rating, proving once again that you sometimes need to be careful what you wish for.
The question I would really love you to answer newn is what happens, what would you say if the candidate of the opposite party wins the next election, and decided to continue to maintain the same policy that has been in effect since 1953? Who would you bitch about then?
Newn, talk policy, and leave your political agendas home or somewhere else, but please not here.
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Post by montrose on Feb 7, 2015 5:33:53 GMT -6
The term MIA is misleading. It means unaccounted for people who could be POW or KIA. There are no POWs in Korea. There are thousands of KIA, whose bodies we have not recovered.
North Korea demands millions of dollars in hard currency to allow our recovery efforts. In fact, they have demanded some $750 million. North Korea is a state sponsor of terrorism. North Korea is also a key supplier of nuclear weapon skill and technology to Iran.
How many lives are we willing to pay to recover our dead, 60 years later?
The US can wait until after the NK regime falls. Next time they have a famine, air drop hot sauce and let them eat each other. Again.
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newn
Junior Member
Posts: 71
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Post by newn on Jul 6, 2015 11:01:09 GMT -6
As a matter of fact there was a TV news item that North Korea is suffering its worst drought in 30 years. A slick President such as Nixon would have made a deal of trading US grain/aid supplies in return for the recovery of US MIAS in order to get votes from Vets org such as the VFW and Alliance of COld war/korean War families of the missing and also to make a overseas market for US grain
But from this administration NOthing
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