Post by Yan Taylor on Oct 11, 2014 14:14:56 GMT -5
I think the way we are letting the Arab nations fight the ground battle and leaving us to do the air assaults is a big improvement over what we did in the past, as we don’t want to see our ground troops getting killed again.
This could not have been avoided, in all probability. Having said that it may have not become this bad had we not walked out of Iraq with no plan. We created a vacuum. Also if we had not issued a red line in Syria we were not planning on backing with anything but bluster. People believe you are no more than a paper tiger, and begin taking bigger advantage. We could at this point allow ISIS, to conquer an area, murder all the non believers in that area, claim it as a country and then go about using one bomb to turn their sand into glass. Then we could come up with a Marshall to rehab surrounding area. Ok, maybe a bit much!
In reality we will probably be dragged deeper into the mire. Truly a shame, that we all can't get along, people the world over think they are entitled to more than they have earned and want to set about taking it if they can. Whether the excuse is religion, or some other perceived/contrived issue, the real desire behind the ploy is power, control, and wealth for those at the top. Setting up the world using their vision and values.
I too, wish we didn't have the mess that exists now, and I hate to see US or ally troops on the ground over there, again. But, this threat has to be stopped. My concern with this administration is they will realize we have to get our folks over there, but they will so handcuff them with politically correct ROEs that there will be no way to win or end things quickly with minimal losses. Tuco said in the GBU, "When you come to shoot, shoot, don't talk". That is exactly what we need to do if we go back in. Kick hell out of them as quickly and as hard as necessary. No politically correct screwing around worrying about hurting someone's feelings.
Post by quincannon on Oct 11, 2014 21:42:45 GMT -5
,The first rule of making peace is to kick the snot out of those you wish to make peace with.
Violence, delivered boldly, quickly and decisively when visited upon those who oppose you saves lives, ours and theirs.
Politicians, who more and more have never served don't realize this, and the generals that do know are afraid to tell them, lest they not be generals any more. One day that BS is really going to cost us.
All I would like is a world were you can hop on a plane without worrying about the dam thing being either highjacked or blew out of the sky, and the end of all of these safety checks were the airport owners exploit passengers, we have lived under the veil of the terrorist since the late 1960s and the cowardly IRA, now we have the fundamentalist, at the end of the day all I to see before I croak is a world were my Grandson and his family can travel without fear, but I don't think this will happen.
No one wants to see western boots on the ground or a costly air war, but this group is well organised and it initially took everyone by surprise with just how well structured they are, they have a core of hard liners who will not stop until they get what they want, it may be a state for now but who knows, the world? They hate any other religious sect, so I think that the nations surrounding the area should get off their arses and sort them out, let’s face it they are strong enough and well equipped, what I am sick of is their idea of leaving it all for western powers to sort out, the same is happening in Africa, who turns up to sort out the mess the French, British the US? What about South Africa and a few more getting involved instead of passing the buck.
Last Edit: Oct 14, 2014 7:46:37 GMT -5 by Yan Taylor
Well I disagree. I don't give a rats behind if politicians are committed. In fact I don't want politicians committed. What I want first is the people that the politicians work for to be committed, people like you and I. When the general populace is committed to a course of actions, the politicians have a way of getting out in front to lead. On the other hand when there is no public support, or that support on shaky ground, it does not matter the degree of commitment on the part of politicians.
The politicians led real in Vietnam and Korea, the populace went south due to in large part to politicians lead or messing around. We don't need more of that kind of leadership. I have very little faith in current Sec. Def. and his controllers. Also not too sure of Joint Chiefs, might be McClellanesk or worse.
Post by quincannon on Oct 14, 2014 10:59:39 GMT -5
Granted on your first. Very poor leadership on their part. Very poor generalship in both as well. In Korea, MacArthur was a disaster. Ridgeway got things back on track, but a lot of the damage was already done both on the line and at home.
Dempsey and Odierno are not but I don't know about the others.
It is also well to remember that the SecDef and JCS do not set policy. They advise on what that policy should be. We have a Commander in Chief that is known for playing the long game. I am willing to give him the time he needs to get the structure necessary in place. Time as of now is not critical. It can become so quickly, but not yet. It is in the combatant commander where the kick ass name taker should be. The direct line is from POTUS to him.
No I have not changed my mind that the US and possibly the Western allies will have to insert more in the way of ground forces, but that too is not time sensitive at this juncture. In the end though those in the region will have to save their own bacon, they must, for they must set their own destiny. I don't mind helping that effort to a greater degree than we have so far. I just don't want to do it for them. If they do it no residual conflict will remain, or at least it will be manageable. If we do it, residual conflict will not be resolved, and will require an encore performance somewhere down the road.
PS: And please don't sell McClellan short. He was not much of a fighter. That's true. But what is also true that there would have been no Grant, Sherman, Sheridan and Hancock without the organizational skills of a George McClellan and Montgomery Meigs, just as there would be no Patton, Collins, Ridgeway and the rest, without the organizational skills of Leslie McNair, Frank Andrews, and J.C.H. Lee. You need, you must have, both.
Last Edit: Oct 14, 2014 14:33:54 GMT -5 by quincannon