|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 23, 2014 5:00:58 GMT -6
Hello and Good Morning. Now before you think I have turned into Conz, I would like some help with this map, I have tried to highlight the areas where I guess Keogh’s Companies may have been located, and I wanted to know the significance of the two ravines that lead up to what I think is Greasy Grass Ridge, the one on the extreme left may be too far away to be of any importance but the one in the centre looks like a natural avenue to this feature, the red line to right are where a large bunch of Indian cartridges were found so these Warriors may have come up from ford B, I do find it interesting that no one really mentions these two ravines as they could be the ones that the Indians used to occupy Calhoun Coulee, and it could be from this place that the Indians launched their main attack on C Company and thus up onto L Companies right flank and that this could have turned the tables in the Warriors favour and unlocked the Keogh sector. If you are wondering what the line is on the right, is the rout up Deep Coulee and on to Henryville (I think) Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2014 10:14:15 GMT -6
Ian: I do not have my maps at hand, and the angle of the image confuses me a bit but I think C should be where L is. L just to the right of where you show I and I further up that ridge leading off to the left about half way, and backed off somewhat to ward the top of the photo. Henryville is just to the right in that low ground where I said to reposition L
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 23, 2014 10:29:28 GMT -6
Right Chuck, I have amended the image, yes I agree it is a confusing angle and that’s why I asked for some help, the image itself is very clear and gives a good idea of the lie of the land, once I saw it I knew I had to post it.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2014 10:34:12 GMT -6
Look good. Greasy Grass Hill/Ridge is immediately adjacent to the river. Get Fred on these two ravines you are enquiring about. He walked them this past June.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 23, 2014 10:53:20 GMT -6
Good idea, I would like as much input as possible, seems a waste not use the image and see if this is how C Company got into so much trouble.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 23, 2014 11:02:55 GMT -6
Get Fred on these two ravines you are enquiring about. He walked them this past June. What are we talking about here? What have I missed? Where are the maps... which ravines? Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Jan 23, 2014 11:07:54 GMT -6
The ravines in Ian's picture, Calhoun Coulee, Deep Ravine, Deep Coulee and the rest. I think he is trying to start a discussion on avenues of approach/infiltration Fred, and you just having been down in those areas this past June, it would seem you are the most current and qualified to express the viability of them.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 23, 2014 11:26:46 GMT -6
OK... never mind, I see them.
First of all, who drew in the positions?
Second, you have L and C incorrect. According to what I see here, you have C Company in the middle of the Deep Coulee flats. That is incorrect. (At times, these Google relief maps are very difficult to interpret.) The "ridge" accentuated by the relief is not as prominent in real time. Go along the park access road to the left of where the blue C line is: that is Finley-Finckle, right where the tip of the left red arrow is situated. In my opinion that is the ridge C Company retreated to after being routed out of Calhoun Coulee.
L Company should be a little more to the left, the middle of it being where that road makes the loop.
I Company-- if it were deployed-- would be just about perfect. Again, in my opinion.
Calhoun Coulee-- where C Company made its charge-- is that deep depression just below your I Company blue line and to the left of your left red arrow.
The two ravines where you have the left and middle red arrows are fine and I guess would make good access routes to Greasy Grass Ridge. Normally-- and AZ would know this a lot better-- those ravines dump silt into the river, thereby making for decent ford places.
What I really like about this map is that you can see the top of Nye-Cartwright Ridge, about 1/3 of the way down on the far right-- I am pretty sure-- and if you put yourself there and look toward the river-- downstream-- you will notice the bluffs along the waterway. According to Wooden Leg, the Cheyenne camp extended below Ford B, but along the river. Those are the bluffs I talk about when I say Custer couldn't see the camp's extent when he was on Luce Ridge (off the map to the right of Nye-Cartwright). You can also see some of the dry river channeling in dark green, and what appears to be very faint, light green lines indicating an old intermittent streamed.
Is this map on these boards anywhere, without the unit designations and the Indian routes? I would like to save it as a PDF.
Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by tubman13 on Jan 23, 2014 13:22:09 GMT -6
Hello and Good Morning. Now before you think I have turned into Conz, I would like some help with this map, I have tried to highlight the areas where I guess Keogh’s Companies may have been located, and I wanted to know the significance of the two ravines that lead up to what I think is Greasy Grass Ridge, the one on the extreme left may be too far away to be of any importance but the one in the centre looks like a natural avenue to this feature, the red line to right are where a large bunch of Indian cartridges were found so these Warriors may have come up from ford B, I do find it interesting that no one really mentions these two ravines as they could be the ones that the Indians used to occupy Calhoun Coulee, and it could be from this place that the Indians launched their main attack on C Company and thus up onto L Companies right flank and that this could have turned the tables in the Warriors favour and unlocked the Keogh sector. If you are wondering what the line is on the right, is the rout up Deep Coulee and on to Henryville (I think) Ian, when I saw this first thing this AM I thought it was a squirrel hanging upside down. Then I put my glasses on, then enlarged, it is a great view. If you get all of your marks in place, I my take it along on my trip as well. Stealing someone else's is a complement, you know, if I give them credit.
Regards, Tom
|
|
|
Post by tubman13 on Jan 23, 2014 13:24:00 GMT -6
should say work in there after else's.
Regards,
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 23, 2014 13:32:24 GMT -6
Fred I have sent you a copy of the map as I found it with no incorrect lines on, I have amended the one in my first post, please feel free to evaluate and if necessary add correction’s.
Tom if you would like a copy I can post it up without the lines.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by tubman13 on Jan 23, 2014 19:08:15 GMT -6
Thank you, that would be great.
Regards, Tom
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Jan 24, 2014 4:54:19 GMT -6
Tom, the image would look rather small if I posted it here, the one I sent to Fred would come out better if it was attached to an E-Mail, I can still post it here or if you want a better version simply PM me with your E-Mail address and I will post it directly to you.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jan 25, 2014 19:13:32 GMT -6
I have no idea where to place this little gem, but since this thread seems to deal with ravines and a ridge, this may be as good a place as any.
It may even get more use than we bargain for, because I think it may drive my friend DC crazy. I picked this up from Doug Scott's new book, Uncovering History. Hold on to your hats:
Pp. 129 - 130... “Repeat photography also undertaken in 1989 showed no significant changes in vegetation type since 1877, the earliest photographs of the battlefield. These early photographs indicate slightly less dense grass and sagebrush and a few more eroded patches than today, suggesting slightly drier conditions at the time.”
Best wishes, Fred.
PS-- DC and Markland are correct: it is rather fun to place a post where it should be. FCW
|
|
|
Post by alfakilo on Jan 27, 2014 10:10:15 GMT -6
Here is a similar view with additional details of MTC. Andy Attachments:
|
|