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Post by bc on Mar 11, 2013 21:18:26 GMT -6
Hello everyone. Opened up my March 2013 LBHA newsletter this evening and the main story is by Fred entitled "3411 Revisited".
Fred basically lays out why 3411 is the place that De Rudio saw Custer waving his hat. He has all the testimony laid out in a nutshell.
Very convincing although I admit I've been a 3411 believer for a long time.
I've been busy and needing a good reason to post again.
bc
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Post by fred on Mar 12, 2013 18:48:29 GMT -6
Britt,
I am delighted to see you back here; I am glad everything is OK with you and it is nice to see you still active with your Santa Fe Trail group. And as usual, your comments about that article are very gracious and greatly appreciated.
Like you, I have not been on here much lately, but peek in from time to time. I looked at the other site, as well, and as usual turned it off shaking my head. For anyone who cares, let me explain yet another lie or fable “keogh”—and Gerry as well— has come up with.
As usual, Conz treats his theories as fact, then scratches his head when presented with events contrary to those theories yet supported by primary evidence or accounts. To Conz, it makes no difference what participants had to say—or how many of them said it—unless they support his fantasies. His grasp of times and timing is utterly nonexistent, yet he pretends to know when Reno bolted from the timber. It would be interesting to see his math.
That leads into the “keogh” fables and this fiction he claims we discussed where “Fred” supposedly, “rejects the time of the sighting that DeRudio testified to.”
So for the record, Fred does not reject what DeRudio said, simply because DeRudio never gave any specific time of his sighting of Custer, Cooke, and one other… anywhere! What I reject regarding DeRudio is his claim to have entered the timber with Reno’s valley troops as they pulled back and his assertion that he saw Custer some four or five minutes before Reno's retreat. That skews his timing and it contradicts what he earlier claimed. Plus, if one then follows DeRudio's narrative of what went on after his sighting, it is impossible that Reno retreated only five minutes later. The bottom line with DeRudio is he spent considerably more time in the woods than he admitted to. As to his watch-times, at the RCOI he was asked, “What time was it when you looked at your watch?” His response was, “Somewhere about two o’clock as near as I can remember.” This was after he saw Custer and company. He was then asked, “Did you look at the time just after the command left?” And his response was, “Yes, sir, just after. I know it was between two and three o’clock. I can’t remember the exact minute now.” Q: “Was it after two o’clock?” A: “Yes, sir. I looked at my watch every ten minutes.”
As for Gerry, this article was not about timing, it was about location. The DeRudio testimony at the RCOI used in the article was only about location, not about his exaggeration to protect himself. The idiots who drag timing into it are those who have no idea of any of the timing. (Some how I thought Gerry was smarter than that... I guess not.) But trust me... they will... soon.
So please, any of you following this, if you want to know what Fred said, ask Fred. Don’t rely on the twists, turns, and “memories” of the likes of people like “keogh.”
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 13, 2013 9:19:42 GMT -6
Yes, but the really important question is did the lady parked next to you in the library parking lot, when Lisa was getting a library book, ever hit your car door?
I trust Lisa has, or is well on the road to recovery?
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Post by fred on Mar 13, 2013 9:45:59 GMT -6
No, she never hit the door... I glared her down. Some people get awed by these big Mercedes SUVs.
Lisa is doing much, much better. The fifth and final cast was removed two weeks ago and the surgeon and physical therapist have given her a cane, eschewing the crutches. The ankle still aches and she limps around, but is considerably more mobile with the cane. They even want that put aside except when she is outdoors. That's all the good news. The bad news is that she will not be back with a normal-functioning ankle for a year. Bad, bad break!
And how is your wife? Well, I hope. And you too.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 13, 2013 9:50:15 GMT -6
Hi Fred; sorry to hear about the missus, I hope you are doing your duty with fetching and carrying, and cooking of course.
Look out; Jag is on the prowl over on the other board, and he is not mincing his words over the 3411 issue, but we know that his bark is worse than his bite and in a way do I miss his quarrelsome posts, he may even grace us with a visit, if he is watching ‘’ Hi Jag how are you doing old chum’’.
Ian.
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Post by fred on Mar 13, 2013 10:43:00 GMT -6
Ian,
Thank you... and she is doing rather well, all things considered.
As for "Jag," he means a little less than nothing to me. While DC calls "Wild" the drunk at the bar, Jag to me is the clown on the soapbox preaching the world's end. Tattered and ragged, he reeks of hate, poor logic, and poorer knowledge. No reasoned student of this event takes him seriously and even while I hold "keogh" is some disdain, at least "keogh" presents a challenge at times. Jag is utter nonsense... and a turn-off beyond the first sentence. In fact, I am not sure he has ever put up an idea he hasn't read from some tertiary source or one he hasn't distorted beyond recognition.
Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 13, 2013 14:01:23 GMT -6
That’s good news Fred, and how are you me old mate, good I hope.
Clair is shooting holes through Jags rendition of hill 3411; I bet steam is coming out of his ears.
When you say Jag is the clown on the soap box, I had to smile to myself, because I had a vision of the kids show the Muppets, and those two old Geezers in the box at the side of the stage who moan and criticize every act, they remind me of Jag and Justin.
Ian.
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Post by zekesgirl on Mar 13, 2013 20:49:06 GMT -6
Good to see you back, Fred.
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Post by wild on Mar 26, 2013 13:39:04 GMT -6
Over what distance did DeRudio observe Custer on 3411?
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Post by fred on Mar 26, 2013 15:43:53 GMT -6
Over what distance did DeRudio observe Custer on 3411? That's the killer! At the RCOI, DeRudio said 1,000 yards. Some were incredulous, including Hugh Scott, who, by that time, was an officer in the regiment. In reality, the distance from the southern end of the timber is closer to 1,400 yards. If you stuck the three riders on Sharpshooters' Ridge, you would have to add another 250-300 yards, making it almost a full mile. Then, if you believe the horseswipe about this metal-detecting enthusiast, Vaughn/Vaughan, and use the Garryowen Loop as Reno's timber area... well, add on another 400-500 yards or so. My buddies and I have tested this theory at the site, and it is very easy to see people on that ridge at the 1,400 yard distance. Making them out by name, however, is a little more problematic, especially three men on horseback, dressed similarly. You would have to know who wore what to be anywhere near accurate, probably why DeRudio couldn't identify the third rider. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2013 17:29:50 GMT -6
Fred, What's your best guess at who the third was? Not important, just curious. Best, c.
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Post by fred on Mar 26, 2013 18:48:16 GMT -6
What's your best guess at who the third was? Chris, Tom Custer. It stands to reason. Some say Martini, based on what he had to say at the RCOI and over time, but his overall account does not support it. Also, why Martini? He was an orderly who barely spoke English and if GAC wanted an orderly to accompany him, he had others to choose from, including Does and SGT Hughes, who carried his personal flag. DeRudio never reported seeing a flag which eliminates Hughes in my mind. Besides, the two Custers were together for the entire campaign... why not now, especially since-- unlike Keogh and Yates-- TWC had no specific command responsibility riding with his brother. Boyer was farther ahead, so it wasn't him; the three Crows were with Boyer; and Curley was with someone else. Tom Custer is the man and he would be the least obvious from a long distant view, no distinguishing features. Best wishes, Fred.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 26, 2013 21:14:23 GMT -6
Agreed. TC is the most probable. Custer would not need an orderly, or color bearer. What he would need at that point is a sounding board, and not one who is a yes man, to bounce his views off of. Tom is the most logical for that role. Cooke was there, because that is what adjutants do.
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Post by wild on Mar 27, 2013 1:46:00 GMT -6
I don't doubt that figures could be seen silhouetted against the skyline at that distance .However recognition would be arrived at by probability rather than by visual. Interesting to note the distance between Custer and Reno and it might just have been the reason Custer continued forward[North]
I think the item on Jag was negative.
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Post by fred on Mar 27, 2013 5:33:54 GMT -6
Custer would not need an orderly, or color bearer. What he would need at that point is a sounding board, and not one who is a yes man, to bounce his views off of. Tom is the most logical for that role. Totally agree. I don't doubt that figures could be seen silhouetted against the skyline at that distance .However recognition would be arrived at by probability rather than by visual. I agree. I am unsure of your reasoning here. I do not understand what you mean. Best wishes, Fred.
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