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Post by benteen on Mar 4, 2013 22:27:16 GMT -6
Colonel, The only Chaplain I am famillar with is Father Vincent Capodanno, as I previously said we have the Medal of Honor that he was awarded in our headquarters. I dont believe that as fine a man as he was that he was beatified. I am pretty sure I would know if he was. Sorry I am no help in this. But if you want to wait untill November 10th when I go back again maybe I can get an answer for you Be Well Dan
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Post by quincannon on Mar 4, 2013 22:32:52 GMT -6
Dan: The other two, both Navy were Joseph O'Callahan who died in the early 1960's and another Navy Chaplain from the Vietnam era. Can't remember his name and I could not pick him out from the V/N era awardees. Perhaps he is the other candidate. Just don't know.
Captain Kapaun has not been beatified yet. His status is still Servant of God, the initial stage. According to one of the Kansas newspapers, the investigation required for beatification is complete, and over eight thousand documents were forwarded to the Vatican in support. Interestingly the ones most active in both the Medal of Honor award and the path toward sainthood are not Roman Catholic, but rather former POWs in Korea, of serveral different faiths This guy was the real deal, honored for saving hundreds of lives from disease and starvation.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 5, 2013 4:43:45 GMT -6
Hi Chuck; concerning the Note, because it was written by Cook and not GAC, we can only speculate on what the ‘’Big Village’’ actually means, Cook may have used some poetic licence when he wrote, as these words may have differed to what GAC actually said, but the basics must be correct, he needed Benteen, he asks for him by name, he asked him to bring the packs and he says be quick. So he obviously needs Benteen plus the packs. Now I remember this discussion taking place a while back, and one of the notions banded around was, did Custer mean the full pack train or just the ammo packs, certainly the pack train as a unit could boast as many Carbines as Benteen’s Battalion, so if he could get this unit along with Benteen’s Battalion up on Battle Ridge, it would give around 450 men with ample ammo.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2013 5:00:00 GMT -6
Ian: For the purposes of my evoliving theory (actually just a directed train of thought at this point) it does not matter if it was Cooke or Custer. It does not matter either what the words were on either side of "Big Village". It is only the words "Big Village" and the indicator they might give about Custer's thought process before the message was sent. We have always concentrated in my memory on the complete content of the note disecting it for meaning of was it an order, a message, an exortation. Why did he say bring packs (twice) and be quick when the two are obviously mutually exclusive. What was more important. Were they both important. Were neither important. Did Custer mean come to him. Blah, blah, blah. That can all be argued until the Second Coming, and it is futile. I think that the only thing of real importance are the words "Big Village", that tell us a lot about what Custer was thinking before 3411, how that might have changed, but give us no clue whatsoever, as to why he did what he did thereafter.
Hint: Take the words "Big Village" out of the message and it still makes sense, complete sense. Why then were these two words inserted?
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 5, 2013 5:46:08 GMT -6
Sounds like GAC was animated with excitement when you take out the words ‘’big village’’.
‘’Benteen. Come on, Come quick, bring packs. W.W. Cooke P.S. Bring pacs’’
You can almost hear the excitement in his voice.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2013 6:44:17 GMT -6
And you can almost see the look of astonishment and surprise on his face as he threw his preconcieved notions in the waste basket.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 5, 2013 9:12:04 GMT -6
Yes, but this the crux, what did he replace them preconceived notions with. He has sent for Benteen + packs to come on and be quick.
If we have a bash at what may have happened en-route so to say, we may be able to fathom out what is going through his mind;
Custer reaches the top of the bluffs, he can see a part of the Indian village, and he can also see Reno advancing. He now sends Kanipe with a verbal message, the column moves on, upon reaching another vantage point Custer gets another view of Reno, this time he has formed his Battalion into skirmish lines and gets a better view of this ‘’Big Village’’. Custer moves to Cedar Coulee, once there he sends Martini with the note.
If Custer did have a change of plan after this point, it may have been thought up whilst he was on the hoof.
Ian.
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Post by shatonska on Mar 5, 2013 9:22:32 GMT -6
custer at the washita charged with more soldiers a 50 teepee village , now he sees a 1000 teepee village , it's obvious he has to send martin with a scared (for me ) note , he needs the other companies , loses time in mtc waiting for Benteen and packs , make a feint shooting on the village to scare the indians and help reno BUT SURPRISE , indians attitude is not to defend but to attack , game over
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Post by wild on Mar 5, 2013 9:34:10 GMT -6
Bravo Shat cosi facile,come ha detto gioco finito. Ci'ao
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2013 9:40:19 GMT -6
Ian: Shat just gave you the cliff note. He gave me the whole book of his views this morning (my time of course) while you were having lunch. All I can say is that he has nailed it to the wall, at least nailed the point I was getting at.
Custer must have known that there were beaucoup indians ahead. The trail told him so. His scouts were telling him the same. God probably opened the heavens and spoke from behind a cloud - George be careful. He knew but did not envision the village configuration. Most likely thought tribal circles (each one manageable by itself) seperated as was the custom by space, therefore time. At 3411 he had one great big Oh S**t moment. Therefore Big Village was an expression of shock and surprise. A great big whooooooooopsi. After that I do not have a clue what he did or why he did it, and neither does anyone else.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 5, 2013 9:49:42 GMT -6
He may have had a glory moment, what I mean by that is, Custer’s thinks;
Hell what do I do now this place is huge, Reno in situ fighting Indians, so I cannot run away, if I do my career is over, I must carry on, otherwise I will be the butt of Terry’s jokes for years, if Reno gets wiped out and return in one piece that’s it, I must go on and hope that Benteen gets to me in time.
Ian.
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Post by wild on Mar 5, 2013 9:56:05 GMT -6
Just to give Chris a mention in dispatches. Books and maps just arrived.Many many thanks Richard
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2013 10:07:07 GMT -6
Ian: Another tell tale as to what he was thinking before 3411 is sending a paltry sized battalion (Reno) to attack. Another is the often mentioned swing wide to the left (Benteen) and pitch in. He was thinking in bite sized I believe, and the hostiles were arayed like a double cheese Big Mac.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Mar 5, 2013 10:26:40 GMT -6
Once GAC had seen what he did see from 3411, I wonder if he realised what a mistake he made separating from Reno. But still with around 350 men, both commands as a whole would still of had a hell of a job on their hands, but they may had a window to stop and take stock, I think once Reno was engaged and Custer was on 3411, that window was closed, he couldn’t leave Reno to fight alone while he sat idle, and seeing that he couldn’t get word to him to try and break off the attack, he had to go on.
Chuck; I haven’t had a burger since last year, new regime of trying to lose weight, but I don’t know if you have heard of the horsemeat scare we are going through over here, some villains are flogging horsemeat and calling it beef, so it’s a good job all mince products are out of bounds for me. Still miss the occasional Cheese Burger though.
Richard, I wonder if Chris has a decent map he wants to part with, I don’t have a detailed map of the LBH, and I would pay the posting fee to acquire one.
Ian.
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Post by quincannon on Mar 5, 2013 10:39:59 GMT -6
Ian: When last in San Antonio, my daughter and I were on our way taking the kids to Fredricksburg Texas to the Nimitz Museum. Actually she was taking me and the kids education was a convient excuse. She said I am hungry, there is a MacDonalds up ahead. I said OK. As she was pulling into the parking lot, I said you know the last time I had a cheesburger it was just a few hours before I had a heart attack. She damned near drove into half a dozen parked cars. She refused to let me get a Big Mac, and I had to content myself with one of those godawful salads. As we piulled out of the parking lot I said very matter of factly. You know that night I was telling you about when I had the cheeseburger before my heart attack. She said yes of course itr was only a few minutes ago. Well says I what I did not tell you is that I had a salad with it. Screetch!!!!!!!!!
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