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Post by herosrest on Jan 26, 2013 13:04:40 GMT -6
l know groove when l it..... ;D
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 26, 2013 15:44:07 GMT -6
I am sure you do know just not anyone else knows it.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Jan 27, 2013 12:21:42 GMT -6
AZ in the fight for coherence, honesty, IQ, and linear thought, and on both boards. Appreciated.
It's annoying to interact with them but it's important that someone does to let the unwary reader know that his first impression - that both strange and herosrest are idiots of the first water - was correct and neither are privy to any previously unknown info, nor would they have the ability to understand it if they were. That's my opinion, I don't know AZ's.
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Post by herosrest on Jan 28, 2013 5:31:53 GMT -6
A response from Dark Cloud and that is appreciated. I must, unfortunately respond for important reasons.
Little Bighorn is littered with and marred by Major Blunders. For example, where Trumpeter Martin rode back from with the message for Benteen. Below is outlined a case supporting the advance of scouts after Custer's command. Significant repairs were made to the face of the Monument before the battle's 10th Anniversary. I agree completely with Dark Cloud that idiots are at play with the battle's history, but l am not one of them and he probably isn't either but he is blind to, and respectful of rubbish that is Major Blunders of logic and assessment.
What should be done about Major Blunders.
New light. The scouts advanced after Custer's command.
The Arikara Narrative, Red Star's additional interview.
On the ridges overlooking the place where the Dakotas defeated Reno, Red Star said he saw the pack-mules unharnessed in a hollow by their drivers, and there over one ridge to the north came three Crow scouts, Goes Ahead, Hairy Moccasin, and Crow-who-talks-Grosventre.
They came to the Arikara scouts and told them to go back because the army was beaten; the Dakotas kill the soldiers easy," that Curly, White Swan, and Big Belly (Crow) were killed. They, the Crows, were intending to circle to the west and go home where they lived.
The older Arikara scouts told the younger ones to take the Dakota horses down to the creek (near the sheep ranch) and water them. While they were watering the horses they saw the older scouts chased by the Dakotas back on the trail and more Dakotas coming up to the Reno ford to attack the soldiers. Then some Dakotas attacked them and they left the horses and escaped.
The younger scouts were Red Star, Red Bear, Bull-in-Water, Pretty Face, Little Crow, Red Wolf, Pta-a-te (Dakota), White Eagle, Bull.
The older scouts were Stabbed, Strikes Two, Strikes-the-Lodge, Ca-roo (Dakota), Ma-tok'-sha (Dakota), Soldier, Boy Chief, and Little Sioux.
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Walter M. Camp interview with Strike Two, July 23, 1912
The Sioux horses captured by Bloody Knife now stampeded and crossed the river, and we, I and above six, put in after them. My horse went in to his back, and I got my seat wet. Some of them ran back toward Sioux village, but we turned them and got the whole bunch together. I was driving twenty head and one suckling colt. Red Star had three, and Boy Chief (Black Calf) had five. Red Star was named White Calf then.
Of our party of seven, four were holding horses. While we were driving horses up hill from river, some soldiers passed by and fired on us by mistake, and one of the captured horses was killed. We drove the horses up high bank on east side and Stabbed now joined us, making eight in the party, and soon Strike the Lodge and Assiniboine came up, making ten, and we drove horses back and got them in a good position. Here a soldier with stripes on his arms came along and asked, "How goes it?" While we were going back we saw the pack train come along. Bull and Share were each leading a pack mule (They were not in the fight in the bottom).
Here we distributed the horses, giving [them to] Assiniboine, Soldier, Red Star, Good Face, Stab, Little Sioux. Each one now saddled up a fresh horse, and we followed the pack train to river, and soldiers were retreating out of bottom and soldiers all in confusion.
The Sioux were pursuing soldiers up hill, and we charged them and drove them back to west side of river where soldiers had been killed. We could see bunches of Sioux all over the valley. While we were watching here, some soldiers came out of timber, having been left there when Reno retreated. Watokshu and Good Elk also escaped from the timber at this time.
The pack train had now arrived on the bluff where we were standing and looking into the valley. We called Varnum Pointed Face. A white soldier was on Bobtail Bull's horse, Bobtail Bull having been killed, and we took his horse and put him among the pack mules. We also found Little Brave's horse and tied him among the pack mules. Bobtail Bull's horse had blood marks down his legs and on hoofs and saddle, so we concluded he was wounded and killed after fording the river that is on east side.
Six of us left the bluff and went to where we could see the timber, and Young Hawk, Forked Horn, Foolish Red Bear, Goose, White Swan, and Half Yellow Face came out of the timber in the valley. From same point we could see that Custer was being defeated.
We six went to where pack train was, and Stab and Soldier proposed that we water our horses, and the three Sioux scouts: Watokshu, White Cloud, and Karu joined us, making nine, and we went to water horses. A Sioux interpreter (Billy Cross) went with us, making ten in all.
We watered, and on way back we stopped to smoke. I took a walk and saw seven men whom I supposed to be our scouts but found out they were Sioux who had surrounded the soldiers. Stab proposed that we hit for some timber and we did so, but found timber scattering and went on to a knoll and had a skirmish with pursuers. The Sioux interpreter (Billy Cross, White Man) went with us. Soldiers on bluff surrounded and fighting at same time, and all of us fought until sundown. After dark we could see flashes of guns. We got on horses and fired guns and made a bluff at a charge and then started for Rosebud.
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Walter M. Camp interview with Soldier.
I was following the herd back toward lone tepee. We came to the two soldiers whose horses had given out. They were together and on foot on the side of the hill. Five Sioux came up, following us. These two soldiers became separated and the Sioux circled them and we supposed killed them both. We drove the horses back and met the packs. I was still behind. When I got up to them, all of the Rees had picked fresh horses and changed, and Red Star was riding the big horse that Strikes Two wanted me to ride. I then picked a spotted one, and when I got saddled up, I followed back to bluff over river.
When got there could not see any fighting going on and thought that fighting must all be stopped. Soon we saw survivors of valley fight coming up the ridge. Little Brave's spotted horse came up with the rest. Red Bear came straggling up without any shoes, and the boys picked the prickly pear prongs out of his feet. I soon recognized Bobtail Bull's horse. Strikes Two remarked that Bobtail Bull must have been killed in the fight. Horse had bridle, saddle, and blanket tied to horn of saddle. I went to Gerard and showed him Bobtail Bull's horse, and Gerard [must have been some one besides Gerard] told us to catch him. I went and took the blanket and said I would keep it. Horse had a curbed bit and fancy trimmings. Stab took the bridle. Horse had no picket rope.
Stab proposed that we follow the ridge toward where Custer had gone.
We did so. Sioux were coming and getting around us before we got to end of ridge. A group of soldiers stood on the ridge behind us. The party was Stab, Strikes Two, Boy Chief, Strike Lodge, Little Sioux, Soldier, Karu, Watoksha, Mahcpiya Sha, and Cross.
The Sioux now attacked us and drove us and the soldiers, and we went back beyond the lone tepee. Stab was riding one of the two captured mules, and his own horse was put in the captured herd.
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The Arikara Narrative. Continuation by Red Star, Boy Chief, and Strikes Two.
“We had no arrangement or order on the field. Strikes Two mentioned the plan first and pointed out the Sioux horses."
It did not occur to them that it would make any difference what they did first as at this time there was only some light skirmishing going on. Custer's plan was for them to seize the Dakota horses across the river.
They crossed the river at a point where there was no regular ford and rode after the horses of the Dakotas. There was very little fighting on the line at this time and the village was just stirring.
As they headed the horses into a group. One Feather and Pta-a-te had a bunch nearer the ford and these horses were retaken by the Dakotas who had crossed the river lower down, below the timber where Young Hawk and his party were to hide.
They crossed the ridge just ahead of the Dakotas and got away with the horses. Little Sioux and Bull-in-the- Water helped to get the horses over the ridge. Here were all the remaining scouts who did not cross the river.
The horses were headed into a ravine east of the ridge and the scouts changed horses. There were twenty-eight of these Dakota horses here.
As the scouts turned back to fight and rode up on the ridge, they saw that the line was broken and that the soldiers were coming up the hill.
The Dakotas were across the river already and coming right after the soldiers. Down the river they could see the smoke of much firing around the grove where Young Hawk and his party were hiding. At the Dakota camp they noticed that the riders were headed down stream.
Red Star saw Varnum, his orderly was with him, wounded in the ankle. Boy Chief rode down the hill toward the river, right among the Dakotas, to look for his brother, Red Bear, but he was driven back.
It is reasonable to conclude that a party of scouts rode after Custer's command, and were aware of his defeat before withdrawing to Powder River. This is consistently ignored by historians and authors and scholars. This fundementally flaws perception and understanding and is foolish, pedestrian, and petty. Why does it happen? Why has it happened? What time is it?
~
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jan 28, 2013 8:25:01 GMT -6
HR can you condense your posts so I can figure the point you are trying to make?
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Post by herosrest on Jan 28, 2013 11:30:28 GMT -6
Comparison's of early images of the monument, for example that where Curley is on his horse astride the mound; with those circa 1886 and later, show significant repairs and maintenance were undertaken to the stones prior to the 10th anniversary. Vertical edges of the middle and top blocks were cut in at 45 degrees. This was also done to the joint between the middle and top stones, producing the distinctive groove around the middle or waist of the monument. Walter Camp noticed the alterations and enquired about such, but the reply dated the work undertaken as later than the photographic record indicates. The bevelled waist is present in D.F. Barry images of the 1886 anniversary. I have not discovered this information noted anywhere besides Camp's notes, where reply to his request for information do not explain the work undertaken and related to later repairs undertaken. Amongst pictures I posted, damage from frost and ice can clearly be seen and this was remedied by cutting the stone back at exposed corners and edges. An absent part of the stone monuments history. The work undertaken was done skillfully and entailed re~carving the names of the dead, where stone at the groove was taken. For example, Dr Lords name. Comparison's of early images of the monument, for example that where Curley is on his horse astride the mound; with those circa 1886 and later, show significant repairs and maintenance were undertaken to the stones prior to the 10th anniversary. Vertical edges of the middle and top blocks were cut in at 45 degrees. This was also done to the joint between the middle and top stones, producing the distinctive groove around the middle or waist of the monument. Walter Camp noticed the alterations and enquired about such, but the reply dated the work undertaken as later than the photographic record indicates. The bevelled waist is present in D.F. Barry images of the 1886 anniversary. I have not discovered this information noted anywhere besides Camp's notes, where reply to his request for information do not explain the work undertaken and related to later repairs undertaken. Amongst pictures I posted, damage from frost and ice can clearly be seen and this was remedied by cutting the stone back at exposed corners and edges. An absent part of the stone monuments history. The work undertaken was done skillfully and entailed re~carving the names of the dead, where stone at the groove was taken. For example, Dr Lords name. Comparison's of early images of the monument, for example that where Curley is on his horse astride the mound; with those circa 1886 and later, show significant repairs and maintenance were undertaken to the stones prior to the 10th anniversary. Vertical edges of the middle and top blocks were cut in at 45 degrees. This was also done to the joint between the middle and top stones, producing the distinctive groove around the middle or waist of the monument. Walter Camp noticed the alterations and enquired about such, but the reply dated the work undertaken as later than the photographic record indicates. The bevelled waist is present in D.F. Barry images of the 1886 anniversary. I have not discovered this information noted anywhere besides Camp's notes, where reply to his request for information do not explain the work undertaken and related to later repairs undertaken. Amongst pictures I posted, damage from frost and ice can clearly be seen and this was remedied by cutting the stone back at exposed corners and edges. An absent part of the stone monuments history. The work undertaken was done skillfully and entailed re~carving the names of the dead, where stone at the groove was taken. For example, Dr Lords name. ~
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Post by herosrest on Jan 1, 2024 10:06:04 GMT -6
Was it the beans?
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Post by noggy on Jan 2, 2024 4:09:24 GMT -6
Was it done by MAGA, BLM, IBM, BMI, ISIS or the WBL??
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Post by herosrest on Jan 2, 2024 7:45:05 GMT -6
Was it done by MAGA, BLM, IBM, BMI, ISIS or the WBL?? Big Blue had a significant hand. I should know - I programmed it
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