I took the time to read that junk. Unfortunately this is the kind of stuff that was taken to be true. Most is impossible. I would like to find some of that gold. Might about as impossible as finding a reloaded 45-70 shell that they claim the Indians were using. LOL
Note.....No gold has ever been found from the Powder river to well past the Big Horn. Moss agates, yes,....Gold, NO.
I think that the NY Times is/was a better class of junk, but news is what people make of it. It is interesting that it predates the 25th and one might assume was written on the 22nd. It would be interesting to know who the journalist actually was - they were few and far between. at that time, only one being accredited to the column. He died on 25th June.
The over turned skiff carrying male is confirmed in Marsh Grants autobiography, that slowed Far West's progress a while but she made it up it seems.
As far as l know, the only journalist was Mark Kellogg, perhaps that was his last despatch. His notebook was recovered and believe it or not an archive l ran into previously, has it published online but i'll have to hunt the link down which is long lost.
who was the journalist or was the reference made, made to military dispatches. Still, the opposing views of what exactly Custer was upto, predates the battle. The pro and anti Reno stuff started really early on.
Josephine being at Powder River on the 24th is new to me, and the news carried missed Terry by only a couple of days. The boat either tied up or more likely turned back for another load at Bismark perhaps. It would be intetesting to find her logs published, since she met Far West during her run with wounded from LBH, to FAL.
There were news reports putting hostiles numbers at around 3,000 at Powder, willing to fight and Crook had already discovered such.
Last Edit: Oct 17, 2012 21:24:21 GMT -5 by herosrest
It was intended for the people of NY. Someone made it up. Who is going to know the difference? They sure as heck aren't going to go check it out.
Dates are way off. It looks like they are trying to fill in the blanks with Kellogg dead. Kellogg is already on the Rosebud by the 22nd of June. I highly doubt that they found Kellogg's journal. More likely to be buried with an Indian. They were fascinated by the writings of the white men. They had know idea of what it meant, but it was like stealing their medicine. Many of the dead Indians on scaffolds were found to have letters of white people. Bradley describes one of these at the mouth of the Rosebud. Letters from a white woman who had been held captive. I am sure an Indian would have kept Kellogg's journal. It was powerful medicine.
Last Edit: Oct 17, 2012 23:14:58 GMT -5 by rosebud
As far as l know, the only journalist was Mark Kellogg...
He was the only journalist with the Dakota and Montana columns. Crook, at any time, had several:
Reuben B. Davenport—New York Herald.
John Finnerty—Chicago Times. Considered the finest frontier newsman/reporter of the time.
Ernest Hornberger—b. 1855 – d. 1916. The Pittsburgh Leader.
Thomas C. MacMillan—Chicago Inter – Ocean.
Charles St. George Stanley—From England. Frank Leslie’s Illustrated Newspaper.
Robert E. Strayhorn—The Denver Rocky Mountain News.
Joe Wasson—Daily Alta California of San Francisco.
Josephine being at Powder River on the 24th is new to me.... The boat either tied up or more likely turned back for another load at Bismark perhaps.
It is entirely possible she was there.
It was 78 miles from Glendive (Stanley's Stockade) to the PRD, and the "Far West" made the trip in 32½ hours, leaving Glendive at 1 PM on June 5 and arriving at PRD after 9 PM of the 6th.
It arrived back to PRD on the 13th, and on the 14th, troops moved forage from the "Josephine" to the "Far West."
On June 22—3 PM—Terry—aboard the “Far West” at the mouth of the Rosebud—dispatches six Rees with mail to PRD. He also requested MAJ Moore send additional supplies upriver on the “Josephine.”
Since Moore was at the PRD, the implication here is the "Josephine" was there, as well. Unfortunately, I do not have the exact distance from the Rosebud to PRD, but one would think those six Rees would not reach PRD until well into the 23rd or even 24th.
Good data, upto your usual very high standards. I have an ever growing list of 'watch for' items because pursuing one line of interest will often branch into related or ambiguous stuff that has to wait. I am sure you have your own technique to address this problem.
In another matter, mistakes litter the record as for example Lt. DeRudio's brave beavers....
Here is another simple slip up, l believe.The text below is a part of the 'five springs' account by Lakota Chief Red Horse.(1881?)
'Before the attack the Sioux were camped on the Rosebud river. Sioux moved down a river running into the Little Bighorn river, crossed the Little Bighorn river, and camped on its west bank.'
l require the name of the river running into Little Bighorn river, that Sioux moved down from the Rosebud River.
DeRudio takes some work, , one needs a xanex or a nice tumbler of JW Black. ;D ;D ;D
l require the name of the river running into Little Bighorn river, that Sioux moved down from the Rosebud River.
Reno Creek... aka....
Best wishes, Fred.
A dry creek is interpretted as river, and there is one of the abiding widespread confusions introduced by interpretation and translations of tribal record. Initially the Maj. J.D. Miles account from Cheyennes returning south is just gibberish but it isn't. The camp offifty lodges was Little Wolf and his cracker hunters who 'followed' 7th Cavalry to LBH.
One account has LW carrying a peace message to SB and it did not go down well, when he arrived and camped at the extreme lower end of the village with the Vheyennes at the mouth of SB Creek. As shown in Clark's map.
Maneuver by Custer is related in Miles account but doesn't stand up because of interpretations of river, ravine, etc...
If you accept the fifty lodges were those of Little Wolf, the account needs decoding rather than debunking.
Last Edit: Dec 20, 2012 17:54:28 GMT -5 by herosrest
Scout William Cross had no definitive knowledge of the battles outcome, having laeft before the siege commenced on the 25th with only the knowledge of those accompanying, or that he talked to before deparing the Little Bighorn.
Lt. Byrne ar Powder River conducted the interview after Far West arrived carrying wounded, and collected the belongings of dead officers for transport to Ft. Lincoln.
This is interesting in respect the bottom where Custer's riderless horse was reported.
Boy Chief, specifically, and at least a half dozen scouts, tried to rescue those including Young Hawk, Four Horns and the the Two Crows who were cut of in the timber during the retreat. Boy Chief charged down amongst the Dakotas to find his brother Red Bear. It is very convoluted text to study and requires reference to Cross's interview and the Walter Camp interviews of Ree scouts. They knew of, and saw Custer's defeat. Little Sioux mentions the Custer fight also, given in context that is awkward to unravel.
I attempted to work out when Cross gave his interview, it obviously requiring x amount of time to be published. The point being had he returned to Terry and the column when the interview was given. As far as I understand, Kellogg was the only reporter until after news of the battle broke, so who, how, and where and when, did Cross give an account that dated to July 4th. The account could not have been published at that date since it would precede the news sent from Bismarck the following day to publish on the 6th. The earliest dated story i have encountered was by Muggin's Taylor carrying Gibbon's despatch of 28th June to Fort Ellis, and his Diamond R article dated July 3rd and published on the 5th July.
Far West stopped over briefly at Powder River. The Josephine was passed bringing supplies to Terry. It's an interesting puzzle. Was Cross interviewed before he returned to Terry, Reno and Varnum.
ADDED ~ Here is stuff to consider
As any who have invested time in the Ree scout's accounts know, the Arikara Narrative is spagetti to unravel.
Walter Camp helps somewhat, interview with Ree scout Soldier.
I then picked a spotted one, and when I got saddled up, I followed back to bluff over river.
When got there could not see any fighting going on and thought that fighting must all be stopped. Soon we saw survivors of valley fight coming up the ridge. Little Brave's spotted horse came up with the rest. Red Bear came straggling up without any shoes, and the boys picked the prickly pear prongs out of his feet. I soon recognized Bobtail Bull's horse. Strikes Two remarked that Bobtail Bull must have been killed in the fight. Horse had bridle, saddle, and blanket tied to horn of saddle. I went to Gerard and showed him Bobtail Bull's horse, and Gerard told us to catch him. I went and took the blanket and said I would keep it. Horse had a curbed bit and fancy trimmings. Stab took the bridle. Horse had no picket rope.
Stab proposed that we follow the ridge toward where Custer had gone. We did so. Sioux were coming and getting around us before we got to end of ridge. A group of soldiers stood on the ridge behind us. The party was Stab, Strikes Two, Boy Chief, Strike Lodge, Little Sioux, Soldier, Karu, Watoksha, Mahcpiya Sha, and Cross.
The Sioux now attacked us and drove us and the soldiers, and we went back beyond the lone tepee. Stab was riding one of the two captured mules, and his own horse was put in the captured herd.
The party of eleven got to Powder River first. Billy Cross, Watoksha and Tonhechi Tu left its at mouth Rosebud and beat us a little in reaching Powder River camp ... The remaining eight stopped at Tongue and camped. We got to Powder a little after noon. Never heard of a horse playing out in either the party of eleven or party of eight while on way back to Powder.
Four or five days after we got to Powder, steamboat arrived with wounded soldiers. Goose (Ree) was among these wounded. My eyes went on the bum and Stabbed gave me a lump of alum. I applied it and it nearly burned my eyes out but they improved right along. Major Moore,6 in command of this camp, the Rees called White Hat.
A party of us were detailed to carry mail to mouth Rosebud to meet remnants of Custer's command. We met a party of our own Rees carrying messages in opposite direction, and Chakawo [or Chakaboo, AKA Billy Jackson] was in this party. When we got to camp at mouth Rosebud, we found our Rees all in rags, their clothing all worn out. Crows and Crow women were here. Aftersome days the whole camp moved up the Rosebud opposite the gap and were told Sioux were coming, and we were all ready to fight when soldiers came and met us.
Several points to ponder, including advance towards Custer.
An important and overlooked account from The Arikara Narrative.
Continuation by Red Star, Boy Chief, and Strikes Two.
"We had no arrangement or order on the field. Strikes Two mentioned the plan first and pointed out the Sioux horses." It did not occur to them that it would make any difference what they did first as at this time there was only some light skirmishing going on. Custer's plan was for them to seize the Dakota horses across the river. They crossed the river at a point where there was no regular ford and rode after the horses of the Dakotas. There was very little fighting on the line at this time and the village was just stirring. As they headed the horses into a group. One Feather and Pta-a-te had a bunch nearer the ford and these horses were retaken by the Dakotas who had crossed the river lower down, below the timber where Young Hawk and his party were to hide. They crossed the ridge just ahead of the Dakotas and got away with the horses. Little Sioux and Bull-in-the-Water helped to get the horses over the ridge. Here were all the remaining scouts who did not cross the river. The horses were headed into a ravine east of the ridge and the scouts changed horses. There were twenty-eight of these Dakota horses here. As the scouts turned back to fight and rode up on the ridge, they saw that the line was broken and that the soldiers were coming up the hill. The Dakotas were across the river already and coming right after the soldiers. Down the river they could see the smoke of much firing around the grove where Young Hawk and his party were hiding. At the Dakota camp they noticed that the riders were headed down stream. Red Star saw Varnum, his orderly was with him, wounded in the ankle. Boy Chief rode down the hill toward the river, right among the Dakotas, to look for his brother, Red Bear, but he was driven back.
SORRY FOR THE BLOCK TEXT ~ It's excruciating, l know but actually is the only way to read this stuff.
According to Lt Paulding, MO with Gibbon'e command, the Josephine arrived to Camp on the Yellowstonr July 7th with supplies. Therefore Billy Cross's account of the battlr was submitted to the New York Times by Lt. Byrne at Powder River depot.