|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 0:49:42 GMT -6
Just tell us what you think happened. That is simple enough is it not?
|
|
|
Post by wild on Apr 24, 2013 2:43:38 GMT -6
Custer's command came in contact with the enemy.They did so in a formation and under a form of leadership which rendered it's response time sluggish and defensive capibility all but non existant. The command came in contact with an enemy in overwhelming numbers. The only response to the initial attacks was to withdraw.The pressure came not from the first responders but from the massing of and increasing impetius of masses of Indians along the river from MTCF to Ford D. Holding formation as the cavalry would do slowed the withdrawal.The rearward companys were commited to following and were unable to take evasive action. The Indians on fresh lighter ponies outran the formation stoped Custer at LSH and cut off and surrounded the individual companys. I'v always been of the opinion that Custer had no time;as examplified by the mess.And the only possible reason for lack of time is that the warriors were on to him very very quickly. Best Wishes
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 24, 2013 3:32:32 GMT -6
Good Morning all.
Hi Richard; when you mentioned sluggishness and slowed withdrawals along with Warriors on faster mounts, then how come the various Companies were found in five locations over such a large area, now I know this question will leave me open to incoming fire because men from nearly all the five Companies were found all over the place, but take some of the main characters from each Company;
The two Company C Sergeants found on FFR (there may be more identified but I don’t have all the data to hand), we could say that C Company was on this location when it got engaged and routed.
The two L Company Officers plus men found on Calhoun Hill, again this could be were this Company was engaged and also routed.
The Body of Capt Keogh along with NCOs from I Company, you could say that this Company was up around this area and was overrun and routed.
E Company; this is the hardest Company to pin down, I have read posts saying that they met their fate around the Cemetery Ridge area and NCOs and men from this Company were found in Deep Ravine or as some say a place called Cemetery Ravine.
The last location is LSH, men from both the HQ and F Company were found on this point.
All of these locations are not together, they are spaced out, so either you are saying that the Custer Battalion simply split into five units and each ran to a different location under pressure or you are saying that these Companies were ordered there and then destroyed.
Either way to say that the Custer Battalion was sluggish doesn’t sit right with the locations I have named, they would have to get to these locations first, plus I would think that any unit that came under attack would stay together, like a group of gazelles getting chased by Lions, they would keep together because like every man or animal there is safety in numbers.
Chuck & Britt, I don’t think I have seen that movie; I have had a look online and found that it had a different title here in the UK.
Tomahawk (U.S.A.) The Battle of Powder River (UK
I will see if I can lay my hands on a copy.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Apr 24, 2013 5:41:49 GMT -6
Wo-o-ow!... I am really impressed! I guess I need to back off and re-think everything I have ever done on this thing!
"Wild" has nailed it! He is now the acknowledged expert in all-things-timing and times at the LBH! Between him and his quasi-literate cohort they have solved the entire riddle. All these Indian accounts they provide, all this artifactual evidence, all this archaeological evidence those two guys give us... there is no alternative but to accept their brilliant theories! Wow! Those two should write a book... at least some articles... I am overwhelmed! And all those liars, red and white, who dare disagree with them... wow! Brilliant deducing!
Humbled wishes, Fred.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 7:55:26 GMT -6
Fred: I AM impressed. I am not impressed by the version he has given. I disagree with just about every word of it, save for the fact that he got the commander's name correctly spelled. The thing that impresses me is that for the first time since I have been on this board he has offered a version of this battle through his eyes.
Now no one can say about him as I often have in the past that he is willing to express nothing about what happened, but knows absolutely everything about what did not. I suppose that's progress.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 7:58:43 GMT -6
Ian: I would not be in any hurry, unless you are a member of the Van Heflin Yvonne de Carlo fan club.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 24, 2013 8:09:03 GMT -6
Hi Chuck, was Yvonne de Carlo dressed in her Musters outfit, if not I will be disappointed, along with Morticia Adams they both looked kinda kinky in some way, but I grew up watching Bela Lugosi and Boris Karloff films, must be the monochrome.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 8:30:11 GMT -6
Ian: I am afraid that I cannot answer coherently this morning. Ziva and Tony were in a very bad auto accident at the closing of last night's NCIS. Will they survive? The world wonders. These dangers always crop up near the end of the season. Last year they were both trapped in a elevator as their building in the Washington Navy Yard blew up around them. Next to all this trauma, what Yvonne was wearing has little significance to me save for the fact that she somehow did not appear as one would expect in 1868 frontier Wyoming
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 24, 2013 8:45:41 GMT -6
I know what you mean Chuck, I really do, me and Susan are engrossed in three programs at the moment;
Endeavour (the early years of inspector Morse) The Village (a period drama set around the time of WW1) Scott & Baily (similar to Cagney and Lacy, but starring the lovely Suranne Jones)
You may get some of these shows in the future; Endeavour is well worth the wait.
(Sorry to take things off topic)
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Apr 24, 2013 8:56:50 GMT -6
The thing that impresses me is that for the first time since I have been on this board he has offered a version of this battle through his eyes. Yes... Lieutenant Colonel Wild... his thought process mirrors his grasp and understanding of tactics. Almost as bad as "keogh's." And here I am, oblivious beyond belief, thinking no one could possibly come close to being that ignorant of basics. Live and learn. But, my heavens, at least "keogh" exhibits knowledge, however badly distorted he decides to make it. These two are beyond hope and I no longer care to waste time trying to get any of them to even see my points. The only real difference between the two is I do not believe "wild" is demented; the other guy is just a ranting loony... and I am not talking about "keogh" here. Best wishes (yes, we're back to that), Fred.
|
|
|
Post by bc on Apr 24, 2013 9:00:54 GMT -6
Ian: I am afraid that I cannot answer coherently this morning. Ziva and Tony were in a very bad auto accident at the closing of last night's NCIS. Will they survive? The world wonders. These dangers always crop up near the end of the season. Last year they were both trapped in a elevator as their building in the Washington Navy Yard blew up around them. Next to all this trauma, what Yvonne was wearing has little significance to me save for the fact that she somehow did not appear as one would expect in 1868 frontier Wyoming I also hear that JR is dead now and I don't know why or how. Apparently he wasn't shot again. The movie that I saw on TCM or AMC recently was called "The gun that won the west" made in 1955 which was probably a B movie since they had no big name actors. Jim Bridger was a scout for Col. Henry Carrington who was building a string of forts along the Bozeman Trail. Red Cloud and his 8,000 Sioux and Cheyenne were trying to stop him until Bridger managed to get a wagon train load of trapdoor springfields and some cavalry reinforcements through to save the day. Bridger had previously taken a springfield to Red Cloud's camp for a firing demonstration in an attempt to scare Red Cloud off. Red Cloud was less than impressed with the demonstration. As was Sitting Bull years later. bc
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 24, 2013 9:32:23 GMT -6
Well Britt someone has posted on the net that Barry Manilow has just been killed in a car crash, I don’t know who posts this kind of stuff but they are sick in the head, but the last time I seen Manilow he looked like a plastic puppet with all the work he has had done, he still charges around £80 a ticket for his shows when he tours over here, Susan is a fan, but there is no way I am forking out £160 out on two tickets, we could get five days/nights in Spain for that. So I can smile without him.
I will keep my eye out for that movie.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 9:32:31 GMT -6
Ian: Endeavour is a first class show. We have only seen one episode here, the one that introduces the character. I had hopes that more were in production and will come here shortly. Inspector Morse was one of those series that sets a standard for then genre, like Brett's Sherlock Holmes.
If you did not know Ziva (Ziva David) is an Mossad intelligence agent introduced in the third season of NCIS. She comes to work at NCIS and eventually becomes a naturalized American Citizen and later a special agent for NCIS. She is played by Cote de Pablo, and absolutely drop dead beautiful now American actress originally from Chile. A nice Hispanic Catholic girl playing a sometimes ruthless Jewish intelligence agent. Go figure. She also has a beautiful voice and can sing like an angel.
Fred: You don't need to understand tactics, or terrain, nor distance, or culture, or anything else pertinent to this battle to know what happened. You don't have to know how to read a map, or appreciate the effects of terrain. All you have to do is watch "They Died With Their Boots On" to understand that this battle was fought on wide open ground, the same exact place the Light Brigade charged, and the Michigan Brigade defeated Stuart at Gettysburg. It also helps to know that a certain restaurant in DC, that is frequented by the Commanding General of the Army, and it is well to get there before him and order the last portion of creamed Bermuda onions, and offer to share it with him. One must also realize that Crazy Horse has a striking resemblance to Anthony Quinn, and the same guy who was the drunken scoundrel at the trading post, was also a drunken scoundrel at "A Summer Place" and Payton Place"" All these things trump all those stuffy old tomes we read on how to practice the trade. No wonder we know less than a company clerk inundated with ammunition requests.
Being very serious though, it is really to bad that he has never visited the place. You can't get a true appreciation of the battle without doing that I think. You and I have had that advantage, and I believe understand why his version is nonsense. I think if he ever visited, and was honest with himself he would then see it is nonsense too, and more importantly why.
The other guy is hopeless, a man who could not interpret the use of toilet paper even with illustrated instructions. He keeps on thinking it is used for wiping off his mouth, and come to think of it maybe in his case it is.
Britt: I understand it was a simple case of the actor that plays JR not showing up for work one day because of a funeral, his own.
|
|
|
Post by Yan Taylor on Apr 24, 2013 9:40:30 GMT -6
Hi Chuck, I always wondered if the Queens own Butler character (played by G.P. Huntley) was a cross between Capt. Keogh and Sgt Butler, yes those onions did look good, but not as good as Ziva David.
Ian.
|
|
|
Post by quincannon on Apr 24, 2013 9:50:29 GMT -6
Ian: I always though him to be a composite character representing both Keogh and Cooke.. More likely though he was an underemployed contract actor for Warner Brothers that needed to earn his keep.
Joan looked long and hard years ago for a recipe for creamed Bermuda onions at my request. She eventually found it and we serve it once a year at Thanksgiving. More likely though the onions were no nearer Bermuda than the local King's Sooper.
|
|