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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 17, 2011 7:58:43 GMT -6
I will ask you then Grand Master, what did take place down at Ford B. P.S. I have ordered two books from the local Library: Little Big Horn Diary, Jim Willert Archaeology and Custer's last Battle, Richard A Fox Have a dice day Huh Huh.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2011 8:24:02 GMT -6
Who could possibly know?
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 17, 2011 8:30:06 GMT -6
Good answer.
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jag
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Post by jag on Aug 17, 2011 8:32:37 GMT -6
I will ask you then Grand Master, what did take place down at Ford B. P.S. I have ordered two books from the local Library: Little Big Horn Diary, Jim Willert Archaeology and Custer's last Battle, Richard A Fox Have a dice day Huh Huh. Ian There are no Grand Master's here, or for that matter anywhere else, when it comes to what happened to Custer and his battalion after they separated from Reno. Other than evidence of where they were found dead, nothing reliable exists to even remotely suggest what their movements were. This in spite of willing wanna be hussarist who proudly proclaim otherwise. In this regard DC is absolutely correct. Curly is usually chosen as the object of everyone's attention because he was the only one with the soldiers who survived who should have known, fact is, he didn't, and what little he did know, he so befuddled everyone by telling so many tall tales about his own exploits, no one still doesn't know, more's the pity. Still, why not choose another Indian to tell the tale? Why not? Ohhhhh..... lets say, for example, Chief Two Moons. He described in vivid detail Custer's troops galloping up over the brow of a ridge/hill (sounds like, but not known for sure whether it was or not - battle ridge), and then spreading out in 3 different groups to await the oncoming Indians for battle. Tell me or for that matter anyone, WHERE would this have occurred and HOW would MTCF have possibly been included in this version?
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 17, 2011 8:46:18 GMT -6
So what we all saying here is after the last Courier was sent by Custer, no one has any Idea of any of the events that occurred, because all the white men where killed, I can go with that, I just cant see the point of having a section on Battle Theories, you might as well just have a thread on what happen to Reno, Benteen and Custer up to when they sent out the last courier, anything else is not to be believed, I can go with that also, maybe we should ask Diane to amend the site to Battle Theories ''except the Custer fight''.that would stop people from falling into the trap of having a discussion about the Custer section and all this would not be needed, I can go along with that too. P.S. The Grand Master think was just a joke between me and DC, he gives as good as what he gets. Yan.
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jag
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Post by jag on Aug 17, 2011 8:59:46 GMT -6
So what we all saying here is after the last Courier was sent by Custer, no one has any Idea of any of the events that occurred, because all the white men where killed, I can go with that, I just cant see the point of having a section on Battle Theories, you might as well just have a thread on what happen to Reno, Benteen and Custer up to when they sent out the last courier, anything else is not to be believed, I can go with that also, maybe we should ask Diane to amend the site to Battle Theories ''except the Custer fight''.that would stop people from falling into the trap of having a discussion about the Custer section and all this would not be needed, I can go along with that too. P.S. The Grand Master think was just a joke between me and DC, he gives as good as what he gets. Yan. I just cant see the point of having a section on Battle Theories, you might as well just have a thread on what happen to Reno, Benteen and Custer up to when they sent out the last courier, anything else is not to be believed, I can go with that also, maybe we should ask Diane to amend the site to Battle Theories ''except the Custer fight''.that would stop people from falling into the trap of having a discussion about the Custer section and all this would not be needed, I can go along with that too.You still didn't get it did you? I was discussing a battle theory. Evidently you didn't like my approach to it because it doesn't fit you obsessive-compulsive desire of MTCF being somehow involved. And when you look at it, no matter how you look at it, if Custer had sent anyone there in Two Moon's version, it was the stupidest thing he ever did. Maybe a good test of this would be to see how many times we can paraphrase Charlie Reynolds words when Reno retreated.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 17, 2011 9:14:52 GMT -6
Jag, every time I give a battle theory about the Custer battle I get my ass shot from under me, yet you can give your theory and its ok, I think the thing you don't get is that I am only doing the same as you, a lot of people on this site have there own model of what happened to Custer, of course its all conjecture, like mine is, so why jump on my theories, why not either just answer them in decent manner or not reply at all. I may fire out a lot of questions, but when I log on you guys are in bed, I miss out on all the fast paced questions, so it looks like I am posting for the sake of posting, but thats the only way I can start some sort of feed back.
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jag
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Post by jag on Aug 17, 2011 9:29:31 GMT -6
Jag, every time I give a battle theory about the Custer battle I get my ass shot from under me, yet you can give your theory and its ok, I think the thing you don't get is that I am only doing the same as you, a lot of people on this site have there own model of what happened to Custer, of course its all conjecture, like mine is, so why jump on my theories, why not either just answer them in decent manner or not reply at all. I may fire out a lot of questions, but when I log on you guys are in bed, I miss out on all the fast paced questions, so it looks like I am posting for the sake of posting, but thats the only way I can start some sort of feed back. If we're going to have a discussion about this part of the battle, WHY exclude Two Moon's statements? Why exclude any other Indian statements that disprove your theory? I know it's tough. We are discussing your theory, whether you think so or not, and whether you like it or not. To be all inclusive of ALL statements made about this part of the battle isn't wrong is it? If it is, I'll go sit in a corner and let you tell us every GD move Custer, Keogh, Calhoun, Yates, etal made that afternoon, as if I haven't heard all this somewhere else that is kept playing over and over like some old freaking recording stuck in a deep criss-crossed scratched groove across its surface, as if somehow, the repeating cacophony of repetitive mantra's makes it the the only right way to hear it, see it and believe it.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Aug 17, 2011 9:40:44 GMT -6
I have never heard of two moons so how can I exclude his statement, going back to the theories, when ever I do make a theory, I just get the same old stuff, like '' how do you know this, they all died, where is your source from etc, I just cant see any point in it any more, I was going to refrain from this thread until I seen that Wild was back on the scene after his break, and I put a question to him, other wise I wouldn't have bothered because its the same old stuff, like you said a record stuck in a groove.
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jag
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Post by jag on Aug 17, 2011 10:54:22 GMT -6
I have never heard of two moons so how can I exclude his statement, going back to the theories, when ever I do make a theory, I just get the same old stuff, like '' how do you know this, they all died, where is your source from etc, I just cant see any point in it any more, I was going to refrain from this thread until I seen that Wild was back on the scene after his break, and I put a question to him, other wise I wouldn't have bothered because its the same old stuff, like you said a record stuck in a groove. Nice... How one sided of you. Let me see. Lets just discuss your theory, nothing but your theory AND only what makes it right. Got it. Good night Gracie.
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Post by wild on Aug 17, 2011 11:45:34 GMT -6
The problem with "beyond MTC" is that it attracts most of the loony fringe and rif raf who queer the pitch for the more genuine historian.Sorta like a Mother Teresa project supported by a coven of hell's angles. My sympathy is with Ian and those who ply their trade there.Mining for the truth in such a neighbourhood should carry a health warning.
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Post by rosebud on Aug 17, 2011 12:08:34 GMT -6
Chief Two Moons. He described in vivid detail Custer's troops galloping up over the brow of a ridge/hill (sounds like, but not known for sure whether it was or not - battle ridge), and then spreading out in 3 different groups to await the oncoming Indians for battle. Tell me or for that matter anyone, WHERE would this have occurred ? Jag
Could be .......leaving Blummer/ Nye, Cartwright ridge, headed to Calhoun hill ......and it fits. Just like Godfrey said they came to the Little Big Horn Battle Field. Yup.....It has been right in front of everyones nose and they chose to ignore it, just like they did in 1876, WHY? .....Oh yea, they ALL WANTED CUSTER to try and cross at MTC ford. They even twist Indian testimony to try and make it look like Custer was driven to last stand hill.
Rosebud
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 17, 2011 13:11:52 GMT -6
When is Two Moon - not Moons - credited with supplying this detailed and fascinating set of descriptions? And we know he said this or we know someone told us he said this? And who was it? Are there reasons to doubt Two Moon's objectivity? Wasn't he a chief more or less raised up by the whites?
In any case, why could it not reference Weir Point's loaf, now reduced for the road? Of course, it could be any of the many ridges and hills between Weir and LSH.
And we're to believe Custer divided his forces in three for a defensive set of battles out of mutual support? And waited? That fits what, now?
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Post by rosebud on Aug 17, 2011 14:17:55 GMT -6
In any case, why could it not reference Weir Point's loaf
DCYou have Custer and his men galloping down Weir Point's Loaf? Thats a new one for me. I think I will pass on that myth Rosebud
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jag
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Post by jag on Aug 17, 2011 17:09:01 GMT -6
In any case, why could it not reference Weir Point's loaf
DCYou have Custer and his men galloping down Weir Point's Loaf? Thats a new one for me. I think I will pass on that myth Rosebud Weir Point Loaf? Don't know where that one could have came from, unless someone was trying to force a split of Custer's force before MTCF so as to send some to the ford some to Calhoun and some to Nye-Cartwright, trying desperately to make sense of if all. Two Moons made no such assertion, not from what he said he didn't. Pg 102 Cheyenne Memories - Hardorff While I was sitting on my horse I saw flags come up over the hill to the east like that (he raised his fingertips). Then the soldiers rose all at once, all on horses, like this ( he put his fingers behind each other to indicate that Custer appeared marching in columns of fours). They formed into three branches with a little ways between. Then a bugle sounded, and they all got off their horses, and some solders led the horses back over the hill. The Sioux rode up the ridge on all sides, riding very fast. The Cheyenne went up the left way. The shooting was quick, quick. Pop--pop--pop, very fast. Some of the white solders were down on their knees, some standing. Officers all in front. The smoke was like a great cloud, and everywhere the Sioux went, the dust rose like smoke. We circled all around them-- swirling like water round a stone. We shoot, we ride fast, we shoot again. Soldiers drop and horses fall on them. Soldiers in line drop, but one man rides up and down the line-- all the time shouting. He rode a sorrel horse with white face and white forelegs. I don't know who he was he was a brave man... Not much fancy hussar maneuvering here that I can see, just those troopers coming up from behind the hill/ridge and pretty much staying right there.
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