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Post by herosrest on Aug 25, 2009 7:15:19 GMT -6
A group of some 9 Cheyenne & Lacota were early to ride from the valley fighting to confront cavalry down river approaching the lower village. Amongst them was 'Crazy Horse'. Others in that group were 'Yellow Nose' and 'Eagle Elk'. 'Yellow Nose' took Custer's battle flag, not a guidon but the General's own flag. Digging further into the composition of this advance element, it seems a warrior named 'High Horse' was present. The impact of this 'band of brothers' upon the Custer fight may have been profound and definitive.There is research published at www.american-tribes.com/Lakota/BIO/CrazyHorse-Part2.htm by Diane Merkel & Dietmar Schulte-Möhring indicating that 'High Horse' was the son of 'Red Legs' older sister 'Iron Between Horns' and 'Crazy Horse'. "killed in an Indian war, and left no issue." This l picked up on some time back but assumed it was known. It was likely as not 'Crazy Horse' lost his brother during fighting on Custer battlefield. There are references also to a Brule Sioux Chief, 1852-1931 who fought Little Bighorn aged thirteen. Also reference to a Sans Arc war leader High Horse who drops from records at this time. 'High Horse's mother and aunts were Minneconjou, the daughters of Corn, on it goes, uncles, cousins, nieces..... Corn himself was a true force during his time.
High Horse as only son and Crazy Horse's brother, could and would have been a member of Last Child Society, a military lodge directed by Crazy Horse. If his partner or wife was 'Sans Arc' the story is complete. The 'Sans Arc' connection as yet l am unable to make. There is good cause from Lacota record to believe that High Horse was killed by 7th Cavalry. It is recorded by 'Eagle Elk' who fought then for death to throw away his own life. This may be cause for the ruthless blood letting that followed. Many leading families, fronters, lost fathers and sons. 'Sitting Bull' in Stanley Vestals records is shown on the battlefield late and appalled at the carnage, probably realising the implications. Blood was hot, victory sweet and vengence at play - words were crossed between the leaders and here possibly lies the root of problems that developed between Gall and 'Sitting Bull'.
This was a very personal fight - start to finish. No quarter given, none expected. In a very real sense, Custer threw himself to the wolves. In study of his Civil War battles, it becomes apparent that G.A. Custer was not afraid to die in battle, he was not unbalanced, he accepted the risks of his chosen proffession. He was a warrior and lived their code. An extended warrior family of four wives with children by 'Crazy Horse' was some force to reckon with as sons grew and took wives. Oglala - meaning "to scatter one's own". Political and military influence throughout the Lacota, a powerful and very dangerous warrior band. Last child includes, only child. 'Eagle Elk' had connections with the 'Sans Arc', if as some believe a group or lodge of this tribe were running ahead of 7th Cavalry's advance, 'Eagle Elk' and his warrior brother 'High Horse's presence in advance of a general movement towards the lower valley makes sense. Families escaped from the village across the river and were first to discover Custers presence.
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Post by wolfgang911 on Aug 25, 2009 10:32:42 GMT -6
This was a very personal fight - start to finish. No quarter given, none expected. In a very real sense, Custer threw himself to the wolves. In study of his Civil War battles, it becomes apparent that G.A. Custer was not afraid to die in battle, he was not unbalanced, he accepted the risks of his chosen proffession. He was a warrior and lived their code. very interesting subject that deserves some digging but then again sounds too much like conz
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Post by herosrest on Aug 25, 2009 11:35:37 GMT -6
Regards wolfgang911
Interesting it is, i'm hoping the knowledge and insight here can rip it up and throw it in the bin!
The extended Lacota families, their ties and the implications are awkward to grasp - that such a loss would be uncommented and unrecorded is very unlikely and yet......... that is 'Crazy Horse' for ya.
The most unassuming, 'bashful' and intensely private type you could ever meet. I believe 'Crazy Horse' entered into the Cheyenne pledge of silence. He held to it. Equally his family affairs were intensely private. Considerable effort is underway to identify battlefield locations of fallen warriors. Perhaps the veil can lift. Many brave men died for both sides.
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Post by crzhrs on Aug 25, 2009 12:25:11 GMT -6
CH was never known for his oratory . . . apparently he was a quiet man that didn't say much, but when he did people listened. And he did have close ties with the Northern Cheyenne . . . that's probably why he was camped with then at the Northern end of the village, where just by chance Custer attacked. The combined Oglalla/Cheyenne force was probably the worse place Custer could have attacked or it seems made a feeble attempt to attack. Or maybe it was CH that was the driving force in stopping Custer's command in its tracks.
The extended Indian families are certainly confusing to understand for "outsiders" . . . difficult to determine who was related by blood, friendship, relationship due to the Indian culture of everyone "related" in a certain way, symbolically, out of respect for a person or otherwise.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 25, 2009 12:53:31 GMT -6
Regards crzhrsIt may simply have been a celebration planned for the Cheyenne cresent that evening. The guys all chilling out in the water and sweat lodges, contemplating the evening ahead. The Oglala were invited to the bash, it might have been in honor of CH or the entire tribe. Wooden Leg leaves good record of the previous evening. There was also loss amongst the Lacota during that night, an elder aunt passing away. That has proven difficult to pin down, however she found rest during the small hours, was family connected to 'Sitting Bull' and the Hunkpapa and one way or other also with 'Lone Dog' and Grey Buffalo Woman and 'Four Horns'. The youngster Deeds was out gathering her ponies for the mourning to follow that day. 'Sitting Bull's night journey across river, to the hills on the eve of battle was mourning. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Eagle Elk was Oglala, Last Child Society, Crazy Horse's military lodge. His mother 'Good Plume' was Crazy Horse's aunt. He carried a Winchester repeater and with brother-friend High Horse, confronted the Reno attack. Both made kills and moved north to Custer. Beneath glaring afternoon sun the valley seemed dark as evening from dust and gunsmoke. Soldiers offered a solid phalanx against frontal attack, Indian sharpshooters could not see well enough to pick them off.
They discovered a ravine without warning. In sweeping turmoil of warriors and stampeding horses, a handful of troopers fought it out from a shallow depression. The brother-friends charged in, riding with knees. High Horse slashed right and left with long knife, 'Eagle Elk' clubbed his rifle butt at soldiers. Two troopers advanced with carbines with aimed and went down under flying hooves. Three more rode in on the warriors' flank. Rearing and wheeling his pony Eagle Elk knocked one from saddle as 'High Horse' leapt another with knife ready, struggling in the dust. The third fired as he went down, striking 'High Horse' square chest as his knife ripped through jugular vein.
Eagle Elk wept freely in his sorrow carrying 'High Horse' to a hill apart from the battle until fierce anger swept over him. He only wanted to kill many soldiers, then die. "My brother, look back as you go. I am following. Look back and wait for me, for I'll be coming soon." Excerpted from an interview with David Humphreys Miller.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 25, 2009 15:20:32 GMT -6
Here is the 'issue' to overcome in this matter - 'High Horse as only son and Crazy Horse's brother'....
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Post by wolfgang911 on Aug 25, 2009 16:41:12 GMT -6
as for CH's half brother, there seems quite some debate on this, as for everything regarding worm but indeed there is said 'an indian war" which should be left unquestioned, can be anything from 1866 tilll 1877 : LBH is that from miller's? as you jump from one side to the another from custer's warrior code ( ) till secrete cheyennes to chilling out lakotas, with all colors of the rainbow typo, i thought it was an automatic writing virus!crzhrs are we being ambushed? if not welcome kola among the ndn posters
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Post by herosrest on Aug 25, 2009 18:28:41 GMT -6
'twould be quite a coup if proven. Facts tend not to go far in matters LBH. ;D
Be well, be free, hug a tree.
I imagine his marker on the battlefield would become rather popular. That 'High Horse' died in combat beside 'Eagle Elk' on Greasy Grass is undoubted. His father was 'Crazy Horse's also. Cheyenne warrior 'Eclipse' wounded at the fight where the girl saved her brother' rests in those hills. To Lacota l believe he was known as Muskrat. ______________________________________________________ LBH is that from miller's? - yes, l tidied it up a li'l. He won't mind. » files.myopera.com/herosrest/albums/805954/1Come%20in%20anger%20-%20Go%20in%20pieces.jpg
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Post by wolfgang911 on Aug 26, 2009 3:49:03 GMT -6
nice painting, who's that from? no website behind though I see nobody dares to post either fearing an ambush or disinterest of anything ndn on the LBH, both attitudes being common on this board hope clw or kingsley bray will read your post being the CH genealogy professors and as it is very interesting indeed (if you're real don' t leave! we need those subjects over here ) for the moment what greasy grass are you smoking bra
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Post by herosrest on Aug 26, 2009 9:55:15 GMT -6
It's an interest, no more or less, history has been a love all my life, l was introduced to LBH as a youngster through the 1968 film and book 'Taming of the Sioux'. The pride, interest, debate and controversies of LBH are quite remarkable and a fantastic window into the american plains, ways and that period of development. The frontier and changing ways of life. Strongly held interests and perspectives. Technical, social, military, political, historical, economic - it is a wonder of discovery, debate and the modern and recent past trying to climb into bed together. It's fascinating the depth and wealth of record that exists and is available at the tap of a keyboard. Photography exploded upon the world at that time and is perhaps the greatest gift yet to mankind. The early Plains photographers were true pioneers.
In UK's history, we were conquered, several times, it comes around in time.
The Piece's image was a bit of fun, a perspective.[/color] ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Somewhere in 'Lone Horn's history is a Brule family connection through wives or adoption or his own kin. Brothers, sisters, uncles aunts........ ho hum. It's there somewhere, staring right out at the world.......... and then the 'Eagle Elk' Sans Arc and Hunkpapa connections. It's in there somewhere. Pure instinct at the moment is 'Red Leggings' because of quite obvious confusions and different naming convention.. perhaps a different mother.
It strikes me also, perhaps twice, that the Brule Sioux Chief, 1852-1931 who fought Little Bighorn aged thirteen gained his name for reason, probably family history.
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Post by herosrest on Aug 26, 2009 11:54:10 GMT -6
l hold a conclusion, quite straight forward and difficult to complete. 'High Horse's AGE resolves all problems.
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Post by Dietmar on Aug 29, 2009 4:45:47 GMT -6
herosrest, I think I first heard about High Horse being a brother of Crazy Horse from the Clown Family´s oral history, recorded on DVD by our member brock. In most other sources Little Hawk was named as Crazy Horses younger brother. If you like, please try to find out more about it here: amertribes.proboards.com/index.cgi?Best wishes Dietmar
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Post by wolfgang911 on Aug 29, 2009 8:28:41 GMT -6
no no leave the subject here for once we have an ndn subject related to LBH and (I try to follow.. ) herosrest statement is that CH had another halfbrother whose death was a reason for the fierce counter till there was no survivor which i doubt but hey whynot, more to the point as keogh had a cheyenne mistress ;D (please explain though what gall versus sitting bull has to do with this HerosR)
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Post by herosrest on Aug 29, 2009 16:55:13 GMT -6
The Sun Dance ceremony 'Sitting Bull' put himself through was a draining and harrowing physical endurance. Whether vision or the sum of his knowledge he was explicit with regard to looting the dead. Now, that is like telling a ferrari driver, keep your foot off the pedal but SB was serious. He did neither expect the wipe out acheived by warriors, no one did. If you accept Sitting Bull was aptly named and believed in himself to some limited degree, both the carnage and looting will have brought about discussion and in respect the looting, differences of opinion. Gall and SB by all accounts fell out with each other that day.
On the point of SB and how much of what was underway was known, he had at least one 'spy' working for the Cavalry scouts who did not undertake the expedition but was found amongst dead warriors in the village upon Terry's arrival. Sitting Bull understood and, hated the white system - he could not abide the us and them, the all change every few years that made promises worthless or the idea of becoming a Grasshopper.
Once experienced fighters such as 'Eagle Elk' lose it and fight to throw away their life for loss of a brother friend, l suspect there was little hope of mercy anywhere on that field. Similarly offering Gall your weapon in hope for mercy just was not a bright idea. The prospect that Crazy Horse lost family, Sitting Bull also and who knows how many more from leading families rather speaks for itself. Then families scouring the field for loved ones and underneath it all an attack on home and family. I think maybe 7th Cavalry got off light.
Besides his age, naming conventions with families is strong as far as l can discern so 'High Horses' naming may offer clues. There is minor record of an Oglala HH or 'His High Horse' as with 'His Crazy Horse', meeting death on that field, therefore an Oglala connection exists one way or other in the way all records of warrior losses are accepted. It is all based on spoken fact and knowledge, someone did not dream it up but may have been confused. Always there is the reminder of the Lone Tipi burial, who was in it, how many, which tribe and actually how many tipi's were there at how many sites.
'Black Elk' is in there as well though he is a later generation. 'Black Elk speaks' recalls 'High Horse' as first hand and being present during courting.
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Post by wolfgang911 on Aug 30, 2009 14:20:28 GMT -6
I don't know if you're from mars or another board but glad to read you man stay here love it why others don't react amazes me I think they're checking your IPnumbers or are ashamed puzzling about brestfeeding while you're doing the real digging here. First i disagree with you about Gall and SB : It could hardly spring off from such a minor incident allthough mystical wakan, as many thing foreseen by SB. Between Gall and SB it was an ongoing fight for power as blotaunka amongst the hunkpapa while headchiefs 4horns blackmoon might leave their places vacant and had SB wacinconza'd. . Earlier on Gall had opposed SB by signing the 68 treaty a much bigger event and in the Frank Grouard affair (for once gall had the intuition...). The struggle between gall and SB went through in canada and on standing rock. I just think Sitting bull had the spirit and the brain whilst gall just had the body (XXL ;D well any picture willl do to show that). At any rate the looting of the bodies was necessary as it gave the tribes weapons clothes and horses to trade, so more power. They even won the battle easier because of this extra amunition. SB did not specify mutilating or taking goods, but he did say the warriors should not do it, so the womend did mostly. I think it is mystical as much of SB and in his line of defense and counter, not as peacefull as Gandhi but still (and not doing unnessecary
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