Let me first reiterate my compliments on Participants and Strategy...Brilliant !
What Im referring to as the SSL is approx. 300yds. down from LST hill in the upper reaches of Cemetery Ravine at Marker 52,up the south side of ravine across divide thru Bouyer cluster approx. 200 yds.. long.
Id like to suggest that their are several indian and white accounts of seeing a number ( varies by account) of bodies in a ravine,coulee,draw. Several of these accounts geographically match Cemetery and not Deep Ravine
A few of the eyes on accounts were provided by Hare,Edgerly,Knipe,McGuire and McClernand indicating Cemetery Ravine.Digging through my notes from the last time I walked DR Trail I had 44 markers on the main branch 7 on southeast branch, I could be wrong as Ive seen various numbers on several maps over the years.
The only account I could come up with of 9 or 10 men on SSL was from Lt.Richard Thompson, as opposed to over 30 NA ( including JSIT )and white 48 speaking of a greater number in a coulee.
Why would it be preposterous for Sweet to place markers in a ravine if this was the actual death site, there a markers on the field in far more obscure locations. And then there are the markers the were excavated and yielded remains and artifacts 7,9,10,33,34 (Bouyer)42, 52 and 53( 1 individual) Did Sweet just get lucky and throw Markers out over bones ?
If there were bodies in DR some trace would have been found in '89 so Im still not buyin' it.
Last question if I may, F Co. movement on LSH,anything other than JSIT account that led you to believe the moved to basin/bowl area before LSH ?
Look forward to reading your next work
Best regards from So Cal
Hunter
Hunter,
First of all, this is how the markers are situated.
ACTUAL MARKER PLACEMENTS—
NOTE—Numbers in brackets indicate elimination of paired markers and locations where no remnants or artifacts were found. Of necessity the bracketed numbers equal 210. It should also be noted, in 2000 an additional marker was added to a base found on Finley-Finckle Ridge in the 141 – 142 cluster. Photographs taken in 1894 and 1995 and shown in, Where Custer Fell [93], indicate the discrepancy. This would total 253 markers rather than the 252 indicated by Fox and Scott in 1984 – 1985.
1. Calhoun Coulee: 9 [9]
2. Finley-Finckle Ridge: 20 [17]
3. Calhoun Hill: 14 [11]
4. Swale area: 5 [5]
5. Keogh Sector: 89 [81]
6. West Battle Ridge: 5 [4]
7. Custer/Last Stand Hill: 56 [42]
8. South Skirmish Line/Deep Ravine: 49 [36] (NOTE—If 28 bodies in Deep Ravine are accurate, then there should be 28 + 9 = 37 markers, not 36. McDougall claimed 9 on the South Skirmish Line (SSL); LT Thompson said 9 or 10. The discrepancy probably lies in the definition of “end of the ridge.”)
9. Cemetery Ridge: 0 (NOTE—6 markers were moved from this location.)
10. Cemetery Ravine: 6 [5]
Total: 253 (NOTE—The Butler and Foley markers are not included in this total, nor are the markers on Reno Hill and in the valley included.)
THEORETICAL MARKER PLACEMENTS—
1. Calhoun Coulee: 9 (all C Company)
2. Finley-Finckle Ridge: 17 (all C Company)
3. Calhoun Hill: 11 (all L Company)
4. Swale area: 5 (1, C Company; 4, L Company)
5. Keogh Sector: 65 (7, C Company; 25, L Company; 30, I Company; 3, F Company)
6. West Battle Ridge: 4 (all I Company)
7. Custer/Last Stand Hill: 42 (2, C Company; 4, L Company; 4, I Company; 23, F Company; 1, E Company; 8, HQ)
8. North of Last Stand Hill: 1 (HQ)
9. South Skirmish Line: 9 (1, L Company; 4, F Company; 3, E Company; 1, HQ)
10. Cemetery Ridge: 6 (all E Company)
11. Cemetery Ravine: 5 (all F Company)
12. Deep Ravine: 28 (all E Company)
13. Basin environs: 3 (2, F Company; 1, HQ)
14. Off reservation: 5 (Brown [F] in village; Dose [HQ] Deep Coulee; Foley [C] Luce-Nye complex; Butler [L] Luce-Nye complex; Kellogg [HQ] in the ravine leading to Ford D, northwest of the ford [formerly known as Crazy Horse Ravine].)
Total: 210
Some of what you may be referring to are actually considered Cemetery Ravine or lower Last Stand Hill (such as Markers 55 and 56), so it is difficult to judge. The Cemetery Ravine markers are 40, 41, 46, 47, and 52-53 (paired). Marker 48 is for LT Sturgis, but that is on the Cemetery Ravine side of South Skirmish Line, so it is considered on the SSL.
Next, the headwall of Deep Ravine was closer to the river in 1876 than it is today. Erosion has taken a toll and the reason no bodies or artifacts were found in the ravine was because the archaeologists dug too close to the Battle Ridge end of the ravine. What people tend to forget-- or simply do not know-- is there was a sharp gap in Battle Ridge in 1876 caused by water erosion and the run-off drained Deep Ravine. It had to have been severe because that ravine is the deepest in the area and has the steepest sides, all caused by the Battle Ridge run-off. That is not so apparent today because the gap was filled when the access road was built in 1934. You would not place markers there for the same reason no one has ever found artifacts there: they would have been washed into the river. I spoke with Doug Scott and Rich Fox-- the two archaeologists who conducted the '84-'85 dig and they both believe they dug too high up, but that the sharp water run-off has most likely carried everything to the river. They both said they would like to check Deep Ravine farther down, but the issue is like it always is: $$$$$$.
You cite markers 7, 9, 10, 33, 34, 42, 52, and 53. So let's take a look at those...
Marker # 7... this is the southern extent of the SSL near the head of Deep Ravine. Fragments from a single individual were found there. There are some indications this could have been SGT Hughes of K Company, Custer's personal flag bearer. While he could have been ID'ed on Last Stand Hill, there were several who identified him at this location.
Markers 9 and 10 are paired and only a single individual was located there. There is a good chance this was PVT George A. Warren of F Company.
Markers 33 and 34 are paired and remains found there were identified as belonging to Mitch Boyer.
Marker # 42... this is paired with Marker 43. Again, a single individual.
Markers 52 and 53 are paired and again represent a single individual.
So you cite eight markers, but only five individuals. Again, however, we do not know how many E Company personnel were taken out of Deep Ravine and placed on the SSL, so unless you know that number, the marker placement is completely distorted. Furthermore it is misleading because you still have the SSL overage (from nine) because none were placed in Deep Ravine. Therefore it is incorrect to claim there was any sort of skirmish line set up based on today's positioning of the markers along the SSL.
As for the basin business, yes, there was at least one other warrior account-- besides John Stands In Timbers account-- alluding to a move of troops into that area.
Also, no one said there were no bodies found in Cemetery Ravine, and if you look at the two charts above you will see six markers identified there, though one is paired. So you can doubt all you want, but the proof is there that only 9 bodies were found on the SSL, while 28 were in Deep Ravine. And let's not forget: there were only 210 men, yet 253 markers are scattered around the field. And five of those 210 were found off the rez, so the marker placement cannot be used as a definitive tool in assessing where these men died. We can only use them as a general guideline.
Best wishes,
Fred.