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Post by bc on Jul 27, 2008 15:11:18 GMT -6
Just wondering what or how the individual Indian Nations/tribes used a feather(s) in their hair/headdress/bonnet and what the significance is.
Seems like I read that one tribe signified the wearing of a feather as to how many coup they counted.
I see pictures of NAs wearing one or two feathers and then those with a full bonnet/headdress. Some are referred to as warbonnets. And there does not appear to be much correlation between whether they were a warrior, war leader, chief, medicine man, etc. I see Sitting Bull with a full bonnet but as a medicine man I don't believe he ever counted any coup or was in on (m)any war parties.
I just watched a video last night with a compilation of Custer movies. The movie makers like to give every third or fourth NA a full bonnet which made for too many chiefs and not enough Indians as the saying goes.
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Post by biggordie on Jul 27, 2008 17:52:53 GMT -6
bc:
I've seen that same "one feather per coup" statement somewhere, but have no idea how accurate it was in reflecting NDN culture and usages. As to Sitting Bull - he had been a rather awesome warrior in his youth, and probably had counted many coups - certainly enough to warrant a full "bonnet." Then there are the differences in the bonnets themselves, some having extensive trailing "tails" and some not.
And, of course, there is Crazy Horse, who apparently eschewed the bonnet for a single feather, despite whatever number of coups he had counted in his warrior "career." Your point about the Hollywood penchant for "war bonnets" is well-taken. I've seen warbonnets on warriors of tribes who never wore them, or feathers either; but it does make for splendid imagery.
I would think that any NDN who wore a bonnet he was not entitled to wear, would have been hooted and jeered at every turn by his contemporaries, much like an Anglo soldier who wore medals he was not entitled to wear - although it would probably have been easier for an NDN to identify an impostor or poseur.
Hopefully, someone more knowledgeable than I on this topic will weigh in here, so that we both can be enlightened on the subject.
Gordie
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tatanka
Full Member
Live for today like there was no tomorrow
Posts: 125
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Post by tatanka on Jul 28, 2008 11:47:35 GMT -6
There was an instance during the Rosebud fight prior to LBH when Jack, the son of Red Cloud, wore his fathers' warbonnet. Crooks' Shoshone scouts, knowing full well he was too young to be wearing such a bonnet, took it off his head and lashed him with their quirts. They refused to kill him, knowing the humiliation alone was punishment enough.
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Post by wolfgang911 on May 3, 2009 16:27:56 GMT -6
bc: I would think that any NDN who wore a bonnet he was not entitled to wear, would have been hooted and jeered at every turn by his contemporaries, much like an Anglo soldier who wore medals he was not entitled to wear - although it would probably have been easier for an NDN to identify an impostor or poseur. Gordie well after 1890 every single indian police officer with no coups or deed had a bonnet for the special occasion shaking hands to government officials I always thougth that full war bonnets did not look very cool and would get in the way shooting (damn the wind! ) and be dangerous anyway, not counting the great possibility to lose em on fight, gone your 60 feather plus full bald eagle loss without insurance. Great men like CH and SB did not need them anyway.
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Post by HinTamaheca on Jul 18, 2009 12:26:07 GMT -6
Immature golden eagle feathers were used most often for war honors among Lakota bands, and many other Plains tribes as well, with their characteristic charcoal colored tip on an otherwise white feather. Golden eagles will have this immature coloring to their tail feathers for at least the first five years of their life. A fully mature golden eagle tail feather will be almost completely charcoal in color with molted bands of a lighter shade. Feathers from mature eagles were used, but the immature black and white were preferred. The relationship of the golden eagle (aka spotted eagle or wanbli gleska) to Lakota spiritual beliefs is far too complex to be discussed in detail on this thread. However, I will share one element of this connection, as I have been taught. In Lakota tradition, it is said that the sun is one of the greatest physical manifestations of power and influence of Wakan Tanka on human beings. The golden eagle flies higher than any other bird, so is therefore closer to the sun than any other bird or any living creature for that matter. It is therefore said that since the golden eagle is often that close to the sun (i.e. the power and influence of Wakan Tanka), it must have the purest of spirit. This purity of spirit, it is said, permeates the golden eagle's body, especially its feathers, plumes and talons. When the feathers or plumes are held (as in a wing or tail fan), or worn in the hair or attached to a personal possession, it is said that the pure spirit of the golden eagle can bless the wearer with that positive spiritual influence. In the Buffalo Days there was a system of graded war honors with specific decorations or ornaments worn by a warrior who had been publicly acknowledged as having performed certain acts to gain the war honors. It is said that the single feather worn in the hair represented the Lakota warrior’s first war honor (known today by the French term of counting “coup”), and was marked and decorated according to the specifics of the war honor earned. The highest three war honors earned by a warrior entitled him to wear a golden eagle feather for each war honor. The highest honor was to strike an un-wounded enemy with the hand, bow, or lance. This feat required bravery and skill in order to escape unharmed. Only two warriors could take this honor from the same enemy. For this highest war honor the warrior was entitled to wear a golden eagle tail feather, so arranged as to stand erect on the back of the head. The second to take this honor from the same enemy painted a single red bar on one side of the feather. This next highest war honor required a warrior to strike a wounded enemy. Only two could take this honor from the same enemy. As a sign of having earned the second grade, the warrior could wear a golden eagle feather fastened to his scalp-lock horizontally at the back of the head. The second warrior to take this honor from an enemy painted two red bars on the feather. The next important war honor was to strike with the hand or the bow, the body of a dead enemy, and again only two could take this honor from the corpse. This third-grade honor entitled the warrior to wear the eagle feather so as to hang from the scalp-lock across the crest of his head, and the second warrior to take this honor from the same enemy corpse would additionally paint the feather with three red bars. Altering or decorating these feathers in a certain way would indicate additional war honors. For example: A warrior who killed an enemy was entitled to wear a war feather with a red spot painted on the side of the feather. Multiple red spots on a feather represented multiple enemies killed. A notched feather with red paint along the edge of the notch meant the warrior cut the enemy's throat. A feather with the top clipped off meant the warrior had removed the enemy's head. A feather dyed solid red meant the warrior had been wounded in battle. A feather dyed solid red and split down the middle meant the warrior had been wounded many times. It has been said that each one of these golden eagle feathers used as war honors represented a man. The tip of horsehair fastened to the feathers and painted red represented the man’s scalp-lock. Only the man who had taken a scalp of an enemy could put the tuft of red hair on the tip of the eagle feather, so that every feather marked in this way stood for two honors – the feather itself for one of the first three war honors, and the horsehair tip for the taking of a scalp. When a warrior collected a certain number of honor feathers, 28 feathers is what I was taught, a wapa'ha or feathered headdress could then be made. This was a complicated process, and took a feast and many warrior friends to help create the feathered headdress in a ceremonial way. A wapa'ha or feathered headdress in the Buechel Museum in St. Francis on Rosebud. Keep in mind also, that there were other headdresses that were worn only by certain warrior society members, or dream society members.
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jul 18, 2009 14:18:20 GMT -6
thanks hin, great to read you here. wasn't there a rule untill 4 warriors counting on some "coup" or did whites count double?
horsehair on the tip? more like feathers on this headdress no?
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jul 19, 2009 8:11:47 GMT -6
The highest-flying bird ever recorded was a Ruppell's griffon, a vulture with a wingspan of about 10 feet; on November 29, 1975, a Ruppell's griffon was sucked into a jet engine 37,900 feet above the Ivory Coast--more than a mile and a half higher than the summit of Mount Everest. The plane was damaged, though it landed safely.
In 1924 a yellow-billed chough, a crowlike bird that's among the highest-nesting species, followed a climbing expedition's food scraps to 26,500 feet on Everest. The avian altitude record in North America is held by a mallard, which collided with an airplane on July 9, 1963, at 21,000 feet above Elko, Nevada.
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jul 19, 2009 17:44:09 GMT -6
holy AZ is a birdwatcher well the eagle feathers that crashed the 7th us cavalry engine flew only as high as let's say, eh what is the height of LSH anyway?
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Post by AZ Ranger on Jul 20, 2009 6:24:06 GMT -6
You thought that birds weren't protected by Game and Fish officers? All of our officers have degrees in wildlife management. Mine is from the University of Arizona in wildlife biology. Not only do we watch the birds we shoot them and eat them such as turkey, quail, grouse, and ducks. We are very active in the Condor recovery program in Arizona with a full time person in our office.
AZ Ranger
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Post by HinTamaheca on Jul 20, 2009 7:51:38 GMT -6
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jul 20, 2009 16:10:42 GMT -6
You thought that birds weren't protected by Game and Fish officers? All of our officers have degrees in wildlife management. Mine is from the University of Arizona in wildlife biology. Not only do we watch the birds we shoot them and eat them such as turkey, quail, grouse, and ducks. We are very active in the Condor recovery program in Arizona with a full time person in our office. AZ Ranger AZ you guys rule Do you want some fine french cheese and wine? I even throw in some naked sunbathing by nice european sqauws all northern tribes combined on our beaches and some ocean surf to get your mindblowing job Can we get into some kind of a exchange programm? Bouhouhouhou hintahameca I actually think full headdresses look nerdy on an indian except for the black ones with few feathers and bisonb horns. 1 till 4 feathers in the hairs that is what made the great guys look good, too bad we don't have his picture. I bet they were a pain to wear in combat, got into the sight with a windblow, fell off (crap!) fell down (worse in the eye) , stuck in the bowstring etc etc. Don't see em too much in catlin's paintings either
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jul 20, 2009 16:21:12 GMT -6
hey I allready wrote that, sorry! with that conz out here you don't notice yourself getting alzheimer!
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Post by crzhrs on Jul 21, 2009 11:15:32 GMT -6
<The avian altitude record in North America is held by a mallard, which collided with an airplane on July 9, 1963, at 21,000 feet above Elko, Nevada>
What the heck was an airplane doing that high? ;D
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Post by bc on Jul 21, 2009 14:39:19 GMT -6
<The avian altitude record in North America is held by a mallard, which collided with an airplane on July 9, 1963, at 21,000 feet above Elko, Nevada> What the heck was an airplane doing that high? ;D Apparently you've never been to Elko, Nevada. Even the birds try to stay at least 21,000 feet away from that town. That's the end of the pipeline when they flush toilets in Reno. Besides the 1 armed bandits, they have some two armed bandits. Stopped for gas there one time 30 years ago, came out of the station and the station owner pointed to a wet spot under my front shock. Said my shock was leaking and it would cause me to have an accident but today was my lucky day because he discovered the leak, just happened to have shocks in stock that would fit it, and he had a repair bay open where he could get it right in and back out for $250.00. I told him no thanks and I would keep an eye on it. I couldn't handle so much good luck in one day. bc
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Post by wolfgang911 on Jul 21, 2009 16:43:18 GMT -6
sounds like a movie with sean penn to me
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