jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 22, 2008 13:46:39 GMT -6
I am hunting for good topographic maps of the LBH battlefield area. I just dropped $20 at Barnes and Noble today buying a Montana Atlas and Gazetteer. It is a topographic map, but it's at such a zoomed-out level as to be useless for any type of battlefield analysis. On the bright side, I can now find every dirt road, obscure fishing hole, and underground gas pipeline (!) in Montana. So, what good topo maps of the BATTLEFIELD area are out there? I'm looking for something I could make copies of and draw on as I formulate theories.
Jason
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Post by biggordie on May 22, 2008 19:15:25 GMT -6
jason:
There are a few choices. You can buy some of the ready-made maps of the Custer and Reno Battlefields, make copies and then mark away to your heart's content. Unfortunately, none of these cover the route up the Rosebud, up Davis Creek, and down Ash [Reno] Creek. To cover these areas, as well as the battlefields, you can get the USGS topographical quadrangle maps, copy them and again mark away. You will be stuck with their scale, however.
Or you can do what I did - Get the National Geographic TOPO! software for Montana. This will allow you to customize the scale and specific areas you wish to cover, so that you can minutely examine the ground [as much as I would think you would want to do]. You can print out multiple copies of the maps you make and mark away........You can also "fly over the routes" with this software, although I have never used it that way yet. But you can make terrific maps, and overlap quadrangles if you wish.
You can plot Gibbon's route, Terry/Gibbon toward the Little Horn, Benteen's March, Reno's attack, Custer's Approach - ANYTHING WITHIN MONTANA. It is a fabulous tool, although it does come with a fairly steep price - around 70 bucks. However, you'd pay close to that for a decent set of USGS maps without having any of the flexibility of the software. It includes more than 3,000 USGS quadrangle maps.
The Old Map-Maker
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on May 23, 2008 15:28:57 GMT -6
Gordie,
The TOPO! Montana is now $99.95 plus mailing costs.
Hunk
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Post by biggordie on May 23, 2008 17:50:53 GMT -6
Hunk:
Thanks for the update. To my mind, it's still worth the price of admission to anyone who seriously wants to plot or follow movements, given the flexibility of the software and the number of USGS quads one would need to do the same work.
I have already used it to create maps for my eagerly-awaited scribbles, and expect to use it for virtually all of the maps which I make. It constantly amazes me that people will readily spend big bucks for the latest theory from someone else, or even the discredited theories of the past [or a specialist volume discussing the color of the flag], and yet will not invest in a good set of maps.
But that's just me..............
Regards,
Gordie
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Post by clw on May 27, 2008 18:01:19 GMT -6
Don't forget the pins. You'll need lots and lots of pins. You can make your own tags to on the pins though. But you have to write really small.
And you'll need a really big table... or spare wall.
This will change your life.
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Post by biggordie on May 27, 2008 19:49:53 GMT -6
One other thing I forgot to mention [what else is new] - it helps a great deal if you a) have some experience in reading topo maps [such as a military or orienteering background] and b) have some idea of what the routes are/were and where salient features are/were. You can't plot someone's movements unless you know what they were.
Half the fun is in trying to match account, photographic, or testimony evidence to the topography. As clw suggests, get a whole raft of pushpins - the ones with flags are neat - set aside a large space for working, and be prepared to get lost in the new world.
The other thing you should know, Jason [or anyone else interested], is that most of the already marked maps are incorrect in one or more respects. Did I already say that?
Gordie
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jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 28, 2008 15:36:20 GMT -6
I did order the TOPO! software, and yes, the price has gone up to $99.95. However, I agree with you about the expense being worth it in the long run.
I don't have any experience at all in reading topo maps. I have certainly LOOKED at topo maps, and they don't blow my mind, but I have never USED one.
I have had some success in finding source material. I have printed off the first part of the RCOI from the web, and I was lucky enough to stumble upon Camp's notes (Custer in '76) at the used bookstore last weekend, so I am slowly but surely building up my library.
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Post by biggordie on May 28, 2008 18:26:10 GMT -6
Go get 'em, Jason - you have now officially entered into the Twilight Zone. Wait - what's that signpost ahead? Lemme check my topo map.
Gordie
PS Not to burst your balloon, but that Custer In '76 merely scratches the surface of the Camp material available in published form, which in itself merely scratches the surface of the unpublished stuff lying in "dusty recesses" of libraries and museums throughout the land - and quite likely in attics and basements in cities and small towns everywhere.
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jason
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by jason on May 28, 2008 18:56:20 GMT -6
I figured there was more to the Camp notes than was in that one book. But it's a start. I have a whole list of books that I want to acquire. Funny how this LBH bug, once it takes hold, won't let go....
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Post by biggordie on May 28, 2008 23:52:34 GMT -6
Funny strange, or funny ha-ha? Actually it's pathetic - it should be a recognized mental illness, so that I can seek professional help. Luckily, I have no-one to whom I must answer for either the time or the money I spend feeding my habit, and I am disciplined enough that I have not yet taken to theft or break and enter to gain access to extra funds.
At least that's my story..............
Gordie
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Post by cefil on May 30, 2008 5:36:52 GMT -6
National Geographic has a new Topo! Explorer site, where you can download individual maps for $1.00 each. (Until June 2nd, this feature is limited to those who have purchased TOPO! Explorer from a retail source, and enter their serial number to claim their map credits. After that, anyone can purchase map credits with a credit card.) Here's how the site describes what's available: Welcome to TOPO! Explorer — we're glad you are here! If you are a first time visitor, you've arrived at National Geographic's new national recreation database. We've filled this site with detailed maps, aerial imagery, updated trails, and points-of-interest from government agencies, partner associations, and National Geographic Trails Illustrated. As a registered user you can download these Trip Files for use with our new free desktop application, plus you can create and share your own custom maps, GPS tracks, photos, and videos too! When you're ready to hit the trail — you can use our Map Store to purchase the exact maps you need for just $1.00 each, then download them into the app to print or connect to a GPS. beta.topo.com/Those of you who are map aficionados: Is this site a viable alternative to the $99 product previously discussed? cefil
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Post by ignimbrite on May 30, 2008 15:46:02 GMT -6
I'm late for work and shouldn't even have signed online, but the lure of these boards was too great. Anyway, a quick note that the whole state of Montana USGS maps in several sizes and formats are available for free online at nris.state.mt.us/nsdi/drg.htmlAll you need is a high speed connection or dial-up with an unused phone line in the wee hours of the morning Ruth
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Post by ignimbrite on Jun 5, 2008 21:57:35 GMT -6
Cefil's post reminded me that I had seen a National Geographic kiosk- map printing thing in a local sporting goods store. I believe it had the USGS maps for all 50 states and for $1.25 or something would print out the map desired.
If the kiosks are a national thing, it might be worth a trip to the local sporting goods store as another option.
Ruth
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TopKick1833
Junior Member
Sherlock the Beagle Dog
Posts: 80
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Post by TopKick1833 on Oct 3, 2008 11:15:14 GMT -6
ignimbrite,
Good link to the MT topo maps. I was able to download as many maps as I wanted with no associated fee. Good quality as well. I was able to enlarge the maps and not lose clarity.
Thanks
TopKick
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