Custer on the couch

[BrokenSword]

I put this link here for several reasons. Interesting stuff is all.

www.medicalalumni.org/CPC/pages/custer.htm

M

[Tricia]

"He appears his stated age ..." uhhh, yeah. Whatever.

--Emily
Worldwide Head of All Shulyas
MST, The Nuthouse
Chairchick, NACCers
(more later)

[BrokenSword]

Tricia "..."He appears his stated age ..." uhhh, yeah. Whatever..."

Now, how did I KNOW you'd be the one to pick up on that, AND would express just such a sentiment?

Madam Chairchick, you often suprise, but never dissapoint.

Can someone explain to me what the HE.... uhh, heck they are talking about in Footnote 1, under 'PSYCHOLOGICAL TESTS'

M(entally disturbed)

[Tricia]

And do we really know GAC's true age? I mean, what if he was (note the past tense, Strange) the Miguel Tejada of the United States Cavalry? Perhaps he used some White Out on a copy of his birth certificate!

"I just looove these new Xerox machines, Libbie!"

--t.
(Okay, seriouser later)

[Diane Merkel]

This should make the Haters list: "His MMPI-2 clinical profile, overall, is within normal limits, except for Scale 5 (Masculinity-Femininity) which is significantly elevated, as is typical of homosexual males not trying to hide their homoerotic behavior."

[BrokenSword]

'...except for Scale 5 (Masculinity-Femininity) which is significantly elevated, as is typical of homosexual males not trying to hide their homoerotic behavior..."

Yep. Dr. Freud, call your office please.

"...And do we really know GAC's true age?..."

I had always thought of GAC as having a heathy touch of the so called Peter Pan Syndrome.

M
BTW- "Scale 6 (Paranoia) ... within the normal range."
They never define the 'normal range'. What are they hiding from us, or is it just me? The rest of you already know, I'll bet.

[elisabeth]

Yes, that is interesting, isn't it! While male sexuality was much less defensively defined in the 19th century than now -- e.g. "showing your feminine side" scored you brownie points with men just as much as with women -- Custer does seem to have been a little extreme in that respect ...

Leaving aside the "Fanny" nickname at West Point, and the well-documented weeping at plays, parting from his mother, etc. ... his relationship with Lawrence Barrett does seem to have verged on a major male crush. Libbie's account of their first meeting sounds more like Romeo and Juliet than two grown men forming an acquaintance. Peculiar. And then there's Carland; in that case the crush was on Carland's side, but Custer did nothing to discourage it. Sheridan, too, seems to have been enraptured by him -- or possibly by The Golden Couple as an entity -- and quite swept away by the glamour ... which again Custer did nothing to discourage. And then there's Custer's bizarre attitude about sharing women (possibly Monahsetah, with TWC and who knows how many others; Anna Darrah, with Cooke et al, if we believe Benteen's rumours and Custer's own letters; probably Mrs. Buel, wife of his old classmate, at Leavenworth in 1870; and his weird behaviour towards Keogh in 1871 -- happily accepting that Keogh's trying to seduce his wife, yet gadding around New York with him, and then forming a highly improper relationship with Keogh's latest inamorata, Mrs. Hough ... to the extent at least of being allowed to read her private love-letters, and to influence her replies. Not normal, even now in the 21st century.) So yes, there's something distinctly odd going on here. Not saying he's gay -- as his heterosexual interests are firmly established, not least by the Mollie Holland business and by many of his/Libbie's letters -- but at least a substantial element of bisexuality in his psyche, even if not acted upon in practice. I wouldn't think he ever did anything with other men. But he flirted shamelessly with the susceptible among them, and got a more-than-competitive kick from competing with the rest ... Distinctly unusual.

Hey, that should get me on the list, shouldn't it!

[clw]

Apr 27, 2008 10:03:21 GMT -6 @elisabeth said:

Hey, that should get me on the list, shouldn't it!

Without a doubt! And it might even cause some broken blood vessels.

[elisabeth]

Yes ... Probably mine, if any philes get within striking distance!

[Tricia]

I thought the article quite fun and think Elisabeth makes excellent points. As I seem to recall the very image of the "man's man" didn't really develop until Teddy Roosevelt hit the presidency. Man as Foppish and Desirable Cultural Icon was not too unlike the prominent idea of the "passionate friendship," a particularly female relationship that to we 21st Century girls would have appeared to be very close to lesbianism.

I seem to recall GAC or Libbie mentioning that he and Barrett held hands in public--which seems a tad bizarre now but wasn't beyond the pale at all in mid-Victorian life. Kiss, kiss, hug, hug, wink-wink, nudge, nudge ...

Another aspect of this narrative I particularly enjoyed was the author's presentation of Custer as a man who simply cannot sit still, a whirlwind of a fellow who probably made all of those about him quite antsy ....

Sorry for the mangled English. I must have left my writin' ability at the ER ... sigh.

[BrokenSword]

Then there's the business of gentlemen intertwining legs together when sitting for photos. It also looks strange to us now, but I take it as simply a display of some special bond (no jokes please).

Plenty of photos from more recent times show groups of men, many of whom have their arms thrown over the shoulders of those next to them. I don't recall seeing poses such as that in any photos from the 1850s-1890s time period. Maybe one arm of one resting on the shoulder of another, but no extended arm reaching beyond the neck and over the far shoulder. Just changing customs I suppose.

Now if someone could explain why American football players are always patting each other's behinds, I can relax.

M

[clw]

I have plenty of pictures of my Dad and his fishing/hunting buddies with their arms around each other's shoulders -- taken in the 30's and 40's. And before anyone thinks it, my Daddy wasn't.

[Scout]

It's all a bunch of nonsense. I've known several psychologists through the years and they were more disturbed than I was and that's saying something. That evaluation of Custer sounds like it was written by dc.

[Tricia]

Apr 28, 2008 19:22:52 GMT -6 Scout said:

It's all a bunch of nonsense. I've known several psychologists through the years and they were more disturbed than I was and that's saying something. That evaluation of Custer sounds like it was written by dc.

Speaking from personal experience, the best psychologists (and psychiatrists) I've encountered are those who openly admit they are also undergoing therapy ... they tend to be more empathetic. But Scout, I may agree with you; I do think the article goes overboard in fitting GAC into a nice, neat DSM-IV category. It simply can't be done short of throwing the boy on a couch and engaging in a thorough examination ....

--t.
Chairchick, NACCers
MST, the Nuthouse
Head of All Shulyas, worldwide

[Tricia]

Michael ...

Did you have to remind me of those "legs-draped-about-each-man's-thighs" photographs? Ick and eeeeeeyyyyuuuuuu .... Of course, we're too busy lovin' Benteen at this board, ya know.

Noting all above, I am not convinced GAC had a Peter Pan complex. I tend to believe he really had matured quite nicely; his only problems (and they were big ones) were addiction and what-to-do-when-there's-nothing-else-to-doisms. Billy and I have always pointed out that Custer was most dangerous (and injurious to self) when not encountering an enemy. Ask Libbie?!?

--t-shulya
Chairchick, NACCers
MST, the Nuthouse
Head of All Worldwide Shulyas