For me, the chief MAD WOLF that i see in the two photos above (sitting at right) is the Northern Cheyenne died in 1908. Also LAME WHITE MAN was called Mad Wolf or Mad Hearted Wolf or Bearded Man, but isn't the same. Grinnell in "The fighting Cheyenne" talk of Mad Wolf that rode with White Shield.....without to specify WHICH Mad Wolf....Grinnel never write in his book the name "Lame White Man". From here born the doubt.
Thats true, Grinnell doesnt mention Lame White Man at all in Fighting Cheynnes... and as my father always says ;D "Grinnell wrote Bent's book, not his own.". (He has been studying Plains Indians since 60's.)
I now thankfully have received the answer from the librarian of the NPS of Fort Laramie Historic Site about the photo I posted in the beginning of this thread.
We have the following information: Photo of Arapaho and Cheyenne members of the delegation that may have been taken October 24, 1851. That evening the delegates were the honored guests of the Jesuits at St. Louis University.
The photo is credited to the :Jesuit Missouri Province Archives 4517 West Pine Blvd. St. Louis, Mo 63108
Arapaho Indian list on the left list: The Tempest Eagle Head Friday Interpreters: Smith and ? (looks like Cepson, but that isn't right is is possibly Tesson)
Sheyennes: listed on the right side (Cheyenne Indians) White Fawn Red Skin Mounts the Clouds
I did try to track down the name of the other interpreter, but couldn't find it in what we had here. I hope that this helps.
Sandra Lowry Librarian
Many thanks to Sandra Lowry for answering my e-mail.
I am still not too sure about the identifications. Friday is definitly the one far left, so the order of the Arapaho is somewhat twisted. I must admit I mistook Smith for Fitzpatrick. White Fawn is more likely White Antelope and Mounts the Clouds is just another interpretation of Alights-of-the-Clouds. Why is Little Chief missing in this list?
Dietmar: Little Chief (Southern Cheyenne) is not missing; Father DeSmet called him also RED SKIN and told that he died in 1858. Then, Little Chief and Red Skin are the same person. Now, the question is: where is the exact position of this chief in the image? Have somebody other infos on him?
After the Fort Laramie Treaty talks the Arapahoes chose two Northern Arapahoe chiefs and one Southern Arapaho chief to go east with the treaty commissioners. These were:
Friday, Northern Arapahoe Eagle Head (Ne-hu-nu-tha), Northern Arapahoe and Storm aka Tempest (No-co-bo-thu), Southern Arapaho
Eagle Head was mentioned by Powell in 1866, when he and Black Coal ware leading the Arapahoes in the fights around Fort Phil Kearny and especially in the Fettermann fight. Eagle Head had a son of the same name, who later was also a headman of the Northern Arapahoe and was closely associated with Black Coal and Sharp Nose. There also was a Southern Cheyenne chief by that name.
Storm or Tempest was a fellow chief of Little Raven, the most important chief of the Southern Arapaho. He fought with an allied force of Cheyenne, Arapaho and Kiowa against the Shawnee and Pawnee in 1854. He signed the treaty of Fort Wise in 1861. Camping alongside with Little Raven, he prevented to be at Sand Creek in 1864. In 1865 he signed the Treaty of the Little Arkansas and in 1867 the Treaty at Medicine Lodge Creek.
Cathy A. Smith, an artist from New Mexico, who made the costumes for the NA actors in "Dances with Wolves", also reproduced some regalia and clothing of historical indian leaders. One of them is Little Chief, the Cheyenne chief of the 1851 delegation. www.cathyasmith.com/home.htm
DIETMAR: have you discovered what is the definitive collocation of the Indian's Chiefs in the image "Delegation of 1851/52"? May be the follow? From L to R: FRIDAY (N. Arapaho) - LITTLE CHIEF (S. Cheyenne) - EAGLE HEAD (N. Arapaho) - WHITE ANTELOPE (S. Cheyenne) - STORM (S. Arapaho) - ALIGHTS ON A CLOUD (S. Cheyenne). It's right this ordering?
Damn how nice regalia... I've been busy as hell with my work and then I've been sick so I haven't been able to join to conversations lately but I hope I got time in future.
We just had a reenactment Indian camp here in Finland and we had visitors from Russia and Belgium. They had some really nice clothes and items they had made. I can post few pics later if you like to see them.
Do you know that are those clothes brain tanned leather that Cathy has made? Very nice job anyway.
WHITE ANTELOPE is not the one next to black kettle in the 1963 delegation photo, he is the one at the edge of the photos , he is exactly the same but older WHITE ANTELOPE compared to the 51 photo , the nose particularly can indicate who he is