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Post by lancestallion on Mar 24, 2008 22:17:15 GMT -6
I was at the massacre site just last week. I took this picture from the hill where the Hotchkiss cannons were located (the hill where the cemetery is).
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Post by HinTamaheca on Jul 29, 2009 11:01:41 GMT -6
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Post by conz on Aug 8, 2009 9:18:54 GMT -6
I see a government tombstone with an American flag on it...are there Soldiers buried at Wounded Knee?
Or perhaps is it a Native American who served in the U.S. Army as was later interred there?
Thanks, Clair
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Post by Diane Merkel on Aug 8, 2009 21:13:04 GMT -6
Another example of Clair trying to be funny, this time at the expense of real soldiers who fought in real wars.
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Post by crzhrs on Aug 9, 2009 14:36:44 GMT -6
Aren't Indians "American"?
I thought the flag represented EVERYONE!
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Post by HinTamaheca on Aug 9, 2009 21:54:04 GMT -6
I see a government tombstone with an American flag on it...are there Soldiers buried at Wounded Knee? Or perhaps is it a Native American who served in the U.S. Army as was later interred there? Thanks, Clair In this photo, (re-dulpicated below), there is indeed a white marble head stone with an American Flag next to it, on the left of the photo, outside the chain-link fence. This is the "standard issue" head stone provided by the U.S. Government to all Military Service Members. Since the Wounded Knee Massacre victims are only buried within the confines of the chain-link fence, and since the Wounded Knee Cemetary contains other deceased members of the community since 1890, I have to assume that this marks the grave of a U.S. Military Service Member from the Wounded Knee community, who may have served in WWII, the Korea War, the Vietnam War, etc. FYI - The pieces of colored cloth tied to the chain-link fence are "prayer ties" or "prayer flags". Cotton cloth with tobacco tied up in them and left as prayer offerings in a traditional manner.
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Post by Melani on Aug 11, 2009 13:13:21 GMT -6
I don't see anything funny about Clair's question. The photo shows a military headstone with an American flag, which is usually the sort of thing one finds on a military grave. It's a perfectly legitimate question, and the perfectly legitimate answer is that it is a Native American vet who is buried in the local cemetery. There were soldiers killed at Wounded Knee as well as Indians, so it is also perfectly legitimate to wonder whether any of them are buried on site when one sees a military headstone and flag. And yes, the American flag represents everyone, but what is shown in the photo is the sort of observance that is usually done for a veteran, as the headstone indicates.
Every time I have seen Ernie LaPointe, Sitting Bull's great-grandson, he has been wearing a Vietnam Vets' baseball cap. He has the right to be buried in a national military cemetery if he so chooses--it would be a great irony indeed if he were to end up at LBH. Though I rather doubt that would be his choice.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 11, 2009 13:40:28 GMT -6
He inquires if it might be "a Soldier" OR an Native American who served in the Army. You or I might also call a deceased vet a soldier or even a Soldier regardless of the genetics. What would be the difference? He sees one, and it permeates his posts. There are Soldiers and soldiers, apparently.
It might even be the grave of a Marine or Lt. Commander in the Navy or an Air Force fighter pilot. To conz, you'd have to add Native American Marine or Native American Lt. Commander in the Navy or a Native American Air Force fighter pilot.
Can't say it's a funny query, but it's offensive as hell.
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Post by Melani on Aug 11, 2009 15:17:22 GMT -6
It's my understanding that the term Native American is not generally considered offensive--even here in the People's Republic of Berserkley. And there would need to be a reason for a vet to be buried at Wounded Knee, such as he lived there. Stands to reason that if he lived there, he was probably a Native American, in fact, probably a Lakota. It would be a bit odd to find a Polish American vet from Chicago buried there, for example.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 11, 2009 15:53:26 GMT -6
Answer conz' question: was he (or she) a Soldier, OR a Native American who served in the Army?
Was Private Skorbitsky a Soldier? Or was he a Polish American who served in the Army?
It's especially galling to think the interred may have died in combat, and being edged away from Soldierhood by the likes of conz.
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Post by Melani on Aug 11, 2009 16:29:46 GMT -6
The implication of Clair's question is "non-Native American solider", as opposed to "Native American soldier." You guys are really reaching with this one. If anyone else had said it, it would be taken as it was meant, not picked apart like this.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 12, 2009 15:30:12 GMT -6
No, I'd be just as angry if anyone else did it. conz, being a Soldier and Officer, doesn't - or should not by training - be reduced to implying anything. Either a Soldier or an Indian who served in the army, a mess attendant, perhaps. Nobody who's read his posts for some years would be in doubt as to what he meant, but believe what you want.
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Post by Melani on Aug 12, 2009 15:53:45 GMT -6
I don't see any difference between "soldier" and "served in the army." I believe the scouts who rode with Custer were enrolled as privates--correct me if I'm wrong. You're just playing your usual word games.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Aug 12, 2009 18:38:58 GMT -6
Yes, that's right. There is no difference between being a soldier and serving in the Army. Yet conz does see a difference, and asks what the stone signifies: a soldier OR an Indian who served in the Army. Get it, finally?
That you didn't know your square rigging and were corrected was not a word game, which I don't play anyway. False or fabricated definitions are another matter. Those were definitions you needed to know - it's your job - and you did not.
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Post by Melani on Aug 12, 2009 20:58:49 GMT -6
A. I don't believe that Clair was making that distinction. It serves your purpose in demonizing him to pretend that he was.
B. It's not my job. My job is administrative assistant in the office of the Friends of the San Francisco Maritime Museum Library. I am a volunteer on Hyde Street Pier, where I have heard even the chief rigger miscall things from time to time. People do that occasionally. And would you mind telling me what relevance that has the LBH anyway? You are continually carping on a comment that was made on another forum and not directed at you. I realize that the LBHA forum is just so fascinating that you can't tear yourself away, even while running it down, but you really need to decide whether you want to be in one place or the other or both. Lurking there and then making snide comments over here is really cowardly--go to the other forum to make them.
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