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Post by elisabeth on Mar 18, 2008 9:44:40 GMT -6
Terrific story, Michael. I didn't know that episode at all. Thanks.
Speaking of Dublin: I just read (only on Wikipedia, but I have no cause to doubt it) that the reason Dublin is such a handsome city is because one of the Earls of Ormonde decreed that the houses alongside the Liffey should no longer face away from it, using it as a sewer, but should be rebuilt to face it, as they do now. Mere architecture may not seem to have a Custer connection, but it does ... because guess who was descended from the Earls of Ormonde, on his mother's side? Needless to say: Keogh.
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Post by doyle1876 on Mar 18, 2008 12:30:40 GMT -6
Thanks Micheal. I'd seen clips of the movie about the San Patricios (Tom Berenger plays Riley) but did not know the full story.
Melani, Dublin was founded by the Vikings who made it a major trading port (the Singapore of its time) The name Dublin came, roughly, from the viking/celt original name Dubh Gall which translates as....The Black Pool
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Post by BrokenSword on Mar 18, 2008 13:06:06 GMT -6
Elisabeth & Doyle-
Very welcome.
The version of the story I posted was dated 1955. I have to say that it was somewhat sanitized for American readers of American history, at that time. The grievances of many San Patricios were quite valid, and for most, no other course of redress and relief was open to them.
There was much more to Sgt. Riley's motives for desertion than chapping at a little 'discipline'. Most of the other San Patricios as well. I would recommend that you check out the full story of that battalion's history. It really is one that speaks to the courage and honor and loyalty to be found in men - even in deserters and (reluctant) traitors sometimes.
Michael BTW- The San Patricios fought their battles right in the area of Mexico that I was visiting last month. They have been lionized as GREAT national heroes there to this very day - even the kids speak of them with pride.
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Post by Jas. Watson on Mar 18, 2008 18:24:49 GMT -6
Hey, I managed to survive St. Paddy's day, mainly because I didn't drink enough. Jas~ (Who's forbears hail from Dublin)
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Post by Melani on Mar 18, 2008 21:02:00 GMT -6
Thanks Micheal. I'd seen clips of the movie about the San Patricios (Tom Berenger plays Riley) but did not know the full story. Melani, Dublin was founded by the Vikings who made it a major trading port (the Singapore of its time) The name Dublin came, roughly, from the viking/celt original name Dubh Gall which translates as....The Black Pool Oh, yes, everybody made the Viking connection perfectly clear. My favorite stupid tourist activity was the Viking Splash Tour--in a "duck," with a tour guide dressed in a Viking costume, telling bad jokes, and we all had to wear plastic Viking helmets. Very weird. "Dublinia" was a great exhibit, with lots of actual artifacts and some very cool life-sized dioramas. We got a picture of my husband in the stocks.
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Post by Diane Merkel on Mar 18, 2008 21:18:25 GMT -6
Did your husband get a photo of you wearing your plastic Viking hat? I think we could take up a collection and pay him for it!
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Post by markland on Mar 19, 2008 8:26:12 GMT -6
Elisabeth & Doyle- Very welcome. The version of the story I posted was dated 1955. I have to say that it was somewhat sanitized for American readers of American history, at that time. The grievances of many San Patricios were quite valid, and for most, no other course of redress and relief was open to them. There was much more to Sgt. Riley's motives for desertion than chapping at a little 'discipline'. Most of the other San Patricios as well. I would recommend that you check out the full story of that battalion's history. It really is one that speaks to the courage and honor and loyalty to be found in men - even in deserters and (reluctant) traitors sometimes. Michael BTW- The San Patricios fought their battles right in the area of Mexico that I was visiting last month. They have been lionized as GREAT national heroes there to this very day - even the kids speak of them with pride. You know, I am going through the enlistment register film which should feature the Patricios' enlistment data so if anyone wants me to get that info, let me know. However, a word of warning as once I get the names of all executed, we'll then have to figure out which were the Patricios and which were "common" executions; which should be doable since there has to be a list of those executed for deserting during war and fighting for the enemy. Billy
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Post by BrokenSword on Mar 19, 2008 8:48:57 GMT -6
Billy- "...which should be doable since there has to be a list of those executed for deserting during war and fighting for the enemy..."
If the actual date and place of execution was entered into the records, it may be easier still. I believe the Patricios were executed in mass - one or two groups of them. The Mexican records (kept by rather shabby standards in Santa Ana's time) may list the names of that battalion's members.
Not all of them were executed. example: Sgt. John Reilly. I'm not sure if there were other pre-war deserters in their ranks who also escaped hanging.
M
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Post by doyle1876 on Jul 9, 2008 16:06:17 GMT -6
Discover this poem by chance and felt it was worth posting here;
The Fighting Race By Joseph I. C. Clarke "READ out the names!" and Burke sat back, And Kelly drooped his head. While Shea—they call him Scholar Jack— Went down the list of the dead. Officers, seamen, gunners, marines, The crews of the gig and yawl, The bearded man and the lad in his teens, Carpenters, coal passers—all. Then, knocking the ashes from out his pipe, Said Burke in an offhand way: "We 're all in that dead man's list, by Cripe! Kelly and Burke and Shea." "Well, here 's to the Maine, and I 'm sorry for Spain," Said Kelly and Burke and Shea. "Wherever there 's Kellys there 's trouble," said Burke. "Wherever fighting's the game, Or a spice of danger in grown man's work," Said Kelly, "you 'll find my name." "And do we fall short," said Burke, getting mad, "When it 's touch and go for life?" Said Shea, "It 's thirty-odd years, bedad, Since I charged to drum and fife Up Marye's Heights, and my old canteen Stopped a rebel ball on its way. There were blossoms of blood on our sprigs of green— Kelly and Burke and Shea— And the dead didn't brag." "Well, here 's to the flag!" Said Kelly and Burke and Shea. "I wish 't was in Ireland, for there 's the place," Said Burke, "that we'd die by right, In the cradle of our soldier race, After one good stand-up fight. My grandfather fell on Vinegar Hill, And fighting was not his trade; But his rusty pike 's in the cabin still, With Hessian blood on the blade." "Aye, aye," said Kelly, "the pikes were great When the word was 'clear the way!' We were thick on the roll in ninety-eight— Kelly and Burke and Shea." "Well, here 's to the pike and the sword and the like!" Said Kelly and Burke and Shea. And Shea, the scholar, with rising joy, Said, "We were at Ramillies; We left our bones at Fontenoy And up in the Pyrenees; Before Dunkirk, on Landen's plain, Cremona, Lille, and Ghent, We 're all over Austria, France, and Spain, Wherever they pitched a tent. We 've died for England from Waterloo To Egypt and Dargai; And still there 's enough for a corps or crew, Kelly and Burke and Shea." "Well, here is to good honest fighting blood!" Said Kelly and Burke and Shea. "Oh, the fighting races don't die out, If they seldom die in bed, For love is first in their hearts, no doubt," Said Burke; then Kelly said: "When Michael, the Irish Archangel, stands, The angel with the sword, And the battle-dead from a hundred lands Are ranged in one big horde, Our line, that for Gabriel's trumpet waits, Will stretch three deep that day, From Jehoshaphat to the Golden Gates— Kelly and Burke and Shea." "Well, here 's thank God for the race and the sod!" Said Kelly and Burke and Shea. 1898.
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Post by markland on Oct 28, 2008 2:23:37 GMT -6
While working on the Mc 1846 enlistments, I ran across these men who were executed at Mixcoac on Sept. 13, 1847. I suspect that they were San Patrcios but the desertion and apprehension dates for the first two do not make a whole lot of sense. The execution date and location does square with the execution details of the final thirty captives. McDonald, John-age 28 at time of enlistment. He was 5' 11", had gray eyes, brown hair and a fair complexion. His place of birth was Edinburgh, Scotland. He was enlisted on August 25, 1846 at Whitehall, NY by Lt. Morris. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as a blacksmith. He was assigned to Co. A, 8th Inf. and had the rank of private at the time of his death. He deserted on January 21, 1847 and was apprehended on January 24, 1847. McDowell, Gibson-age 19 at time of enlistment. He was 31 at time of enlistment. He was 5' 10', had gray eyes, auburn hair and a dark complexion. His place of birth was Wilmington, Delaware. He was enlisted on September 29, 1846 at Wilmington, Delaware by Capt. Montgomery. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as a cooper. He was assigned to Co. A, 8th Inf. His rank at the time of death is not given. His desertion dates were April 13, 1847; apprehended on August 30, 1847; deserted January 20, 1847 and apprehended January 24, 1847. McLachlin, Lachlan-age 24 at time of enlistment. He was 5' 4" with hazel eyes, brown hair and fair complexion. His place of birth was Renfordshire, Scotland. He was enlisted on October 29, 1846 at New York City by Capt. Monroe. His occupation at the time of enlistment was as a moulder. He was assigned to Co. F, 6th Inf. and his rank at the time of death was a private. He deserted on February 17, 1847; no apprehension date given. Executed on September 13, 1847 at Mixcoac. McDowell, James-age 24 at time of enlistment. He was 5' 11" and had hazel eyes, black hair and a dark complexion. His place of birth was Galloway, Ireland. He was enlisted on October 7, 1846 at Augusta, Maine by Lt. Scott. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as a soldier. He was assigned to Co. K, 7th Inf. and his desertion date is not given. He was apprehended on August 20, 1847. He was executed on September 10, 1847 at San Angel, Mexico. Oetker, Henry-age 27 at time of enlistment. He was 5' 7" and had gray eyes, brown hair and a light complexion. His place of birth was [Odnabriek?], Hanover, Germany. He was enlisted on November 29, 1846 at New York City by Lt. Sibley. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as a bookbinder. He was originally assigned to Co. F, 2d Dragoons and then later Co. D, 4th Art. There is no indication whether this was a reenlistment. His desertion and apprehension dates are not given. He was executed as a deserter on September 10, 1847 at St. Angel, Mexico. O'Connor, Francis-age 30. He was 5' 5" with blue eyes, brown hair and ruddy complexion. His place of birth was Cork, Ireland. He was enlisted on December 7, 1846 at New Orleans, LA by Capt. Van Horne. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as an apothecary. This was his second enlistment. He was assigned to Co. ?, 3d Inf. His rank is not given nor place of death. He deserted on March 8, 1847. He was executed September [?], 1847. Rosa, John-age 29. He was 5' 6" with hazel eyes and dark hair and complexion. His place of birth was Oldenburg, Germany. He was enlisted on October 5, 1846 at Williamsburgh, ? by Capt. Walker. His occupation at the time of his enlistment was as a locksmith. He was assigned to Co. F, 6th Inf. His desertion date is not given. He was executed on September 13, 1847 at Mixcoac. His rank was private. Wheaton, Samuel N.-age 20. He was 5' 8" with blue eyes, brown hair and a dark complexion. His place of birth was Ashtabula, OH. He was enlisted on Sept. 12, 1846 at Detroit by Capt. Todd. His occupation was as a laborer. He was assigned to Co. A, 6th Inf. and deserted on July 7, 1847. He was apprehended on August 20, 1848 [sic] and executed at Mixcoac on September 13, 1847. Note: Ages given are those at the time of enlistment. Michael, Doyle or anyone else, if you have a list of the executed San Patricios, can you confirm whether these men were listed? Thanks, Billy P.S. Here is another good article about the San Patricios: www.latinamericanstudies.org/mex-war/saint-patrick.pdf
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Post by markland on Apr 16, 2010 14:52:31 GMT -6
I believe this is another San Patricio.
Conahan, Dennis-age 27 with hazel eyes, brown hair and dark complexion. Height 5' 10". Born in Londonderry, IRE. Previous occupation was as a laborer. Enlisted at New Orleans, LA by Capt. Holmes on 01/26/1845. Assigned to Co. I, 7th Inf. Deserted on 10/04/1846. Apprehension date not stated. Executed at San Angel, MEX on 09/10/1847.
Connor, William C.-age 25. Blue eyes, brown hair and fair complexion. Height 5' 7" Born in Philadelphia, PA. Previous occupation was as a tailor. Enlisted on 08/14/1845 in New York City by Lt. Burkes. Assigned to K/1st Art. Deserted on 11/21/1846, apprehended on 08/20/1847. Executed at San Angel, MEX by hanging on 09/09/1847.
Billy
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Post by markland on Apr 16, 2010 15:35:55 GMT -6
Perhaps another:
Cavanagh, John-age 23. Hazel eyes, brown hair, florid complexion. Height 5' 5 1/2". Born in Dublin, IRE. Previous occupation was as a soldier. Enlisted on 11/26/1845 by Capt. Worth in New Orleans, LA. Assigned to Co. E, 2d Inf. Also served in Co. K. Deserted on 10/19/1846. Executed as a deserter on 09/13/1847 at Mexico City, MEX. This was his second enlistment.
And another:
Dalwig, George-age 22. Hazel eyes, brown hair, fair complexion. Height 5' 5 1/2". Born in Bremen, GE. Previous occupation was as a barber. Enlisted at New York City by Lt. Townsend on 10/04/1844. Assigned to Co. K, 2d Art. Deserted 07/18/1847; apprehended on 08/20/1847. Executed at Mexcoac, MEX on 09/13/1847.
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Post by markland on Apr 19, 2010 10:42:54 GMT -6
This seems to be another one.
Fogle, Frederick-age 24. Grey eyes, light brown hair and fair complexion. Height 5' 9. Born in an unnamed place in Germany. Previous occupation was as a saddler. Enlisted on 05/12/1846 in New York City by Lt. Sibley. Assigned to Co. K, 2d Dragoons. Des'd 07/10/1847; apph'd 08/20/1847. Executed 09/11/1847 at Mixcoac.
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