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Post by Dark Cloud on May 4, 2008 14:49:13 GMT -6
1. I'm not claiming there WAS anything important. The issue is whether Reno was "illogical" and acting in a manner compatable with being drunk and a coward. My point is that there are reasons outside all that which could be argued and might be as true as otherwise. In any case, going on foot on exposed ground closer to armed Indians with cover is not cowardly, and Reno may have had reasons for doing it.
2. "Doyle, I tend to think of "soldier of fortune" as a romantic description rather than necessarily meaning a mercenary." So I asked what the "romantic description" might entail. Thinking that romantic descriptions might be included in romantic fiction, I engaged on that. What is romantic about someone who's in it for the money? 3. It IS the foremast, it's just not the topmast, which is what I recall you called it. A damaged topmast is more serious than a damaged topgallant, because the topgallant sits atop it. Since you work on the ship, you should know that, and since if my memory is correct you did not, it was a poke, is all. Trust me, if I wanted to make you feel bad, you'd be on suicide watch by now. I'm good at that. But I wasn't. I should point out again that I have no trouble admitting my own numerous errors and stupidities on this board and elsewhere, and when hammered I don't feel the need to throw a fit. Big deal. You move on.
4. You don't know I'm NOT a 12 year old girl. It wouldn't bother me if you so thought. I, apparently alone, don't care who any of you are, and would rather just have numbers like the old AAO board had. There's something seriously disquieting about grown men and women trying out new personas all the time while feigning dedication to the truth and against political correctness.
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Post by Scout on May 4, 2008 17:50:42 GMT -6
Actually, I thought you were a twelve year old girl...
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Post by Melani on May 4, 2008 20:26:08 GMT -6
3. It IS the foremast, it's just not the topmast, which is what I recall you called it. A damaged topmast is more serious than a damaged topgallant, because the topgallant sits atop it. Since you work on the ship, you should know that, and since if my memory is correct you did not, it was a poke, is all. Trust me, if I wanted to make you feel bad, you'd be on suicide watch by now. I'm good at that. But I wasn't. I should point out again that I have no trouble admitting my own numerous errors and stupidities on this board and elsewhere, and when hammered I don't feel the need to throw a fit. Big deal. You move on. Pardon me, another typo--fore topmast. But I would still like to know what my post on another board relating to Clair's vacation has to do with a review of Donovan's book? And why you would bring it up here, instead of on the board where it was posted, if it bothers you enough to mention it in the first place? By the way, how much sailing have you done? Just curious--you seem to know a lot about squareriggers for somebody who lives in the mountains. To make me feel bad, I would have to care what you think. But I am finding that your constant insults to everybody are getting old. I think at this point you have surpassed even the Swiss record. I always use my own name, and have never changed it. Somehow, I suspect what I am really guilty of is having an opinion that is different from yours. Nearly everybody else who has posted on this thread seems to be guilty of the same crime, and you have taken them all to task in your usual nasty fashion. You are making it impossible to have an intelligent discussion that includes a variety of opinions, just like somebody else, who at least has the excuse of being much younger.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 4, 2008 20:26:11 GMT -6
Scout,
So long as you excuse me from fulfilliing any predictable fantasies, that's fine.
Melanie,
Grrrrr. A mistake isn't a typo. Thsi is a typo.
Before I was a 12 year old girl, I was an extremely old man from New England, where both sides of my family crewed, captained, or owned whalers back in the day. We ourselves sailed a fair amount, albeit on marginally newer vehicles than barque rigged ships. My great grandfather was briefly captain of the Chuck Morgan (now in Mystic) in the 1890's, which may or may not fall under your organization's control, if it's national. Don't recall.
While some grew up weeping over Casabon, I grwe (<another typo) up reciting Holmes and at one point had memorized his bit about Old Ironsides, which is the world's most beautiful ship, bar none. There is something about the spacing between fore and main and the whole overall configuration of the 1793's that I find beautiful, gun ports or not. The British frigates, in contrast, look they normally moored outside 24 hour bowling alleys, chewing gum. England had a fetish for ugly, ugly ships, however useful.
Also, baseball is for athletes too dumb, slow, and functionally illiterate for Professional Checkers. That's not a typo. That's a mistake, because baseball players aren't anywhere near that skilled.
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Post by Melani on May 4, 2008 23:15:00 GMT -6
Okay, a mistake. If I were speaking, I would say I misspoke, but since I am typing, I guess I should say I mistyped. For anybody who wonders (or cares), here is a nice diagram: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TopmastMystic is privately owned, which is why it operates so much better than we do. They also have their own shipyard, which tends to cut maintenance costs. We actually own a drydock, but we rent it out to a local company, which then charges us to use it. The NPS has decided that contracting everything out is the way to go. On the other hand, Mystic was charging $17 to get in in 2002, and we charge $5. DC, what was your great-grandfather's name? I'm sure we can find a reference to him in the Maritime Library. What does baseball have to do with anything? And once again, why bring this up in a thread about Donovan's book, instead of on the thread where it was originally posted? And by the way, you're still spelling my name wrong. Melani
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Post by clw on May 5, 2008 6:22:00 GMT -6
I appreciate the list, dc. Read them all but Where Custer Fell. As to the lesser addendum's I'm currently enjoying Bradley's journal and hoping to find an affordable copy of Frost's General Custer's Thoroughbreds: Racing, Riding, Hunting, and Fighting . We all have our mental cupboards, horses being one of mine.
Only you would plant that sinister question twirling in my mind.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 5, 2008 7:20:28 GMT -6
No, you didn't mistype. You correctly typed an error. The term 'misspoke' is our gift from Nixon's group, and it was their term for a lie. Just say you weren't thinking. No, this isn't unimportant. We shouldn't allow ourselves to cover an episode of trying to pass off blather as fact, or not admitting we don't know what we're talking about, or have too little regard for the audience to take a sec and get it correct, as merely crossed fingers on the type pad or brief mental hickup. And, yeah, I expect the same in return.
His name was John Layton. When they were operating out of Hawaii in the north Pacific the captain took ill/died/something and he became Captain for the remainder of the voyage and I think, one of his own. Whaling was on the outs, then, so it wasn't the important profession he'd grown up in, so this is not an exciting tale. His log was given to some scholarly entity and I've seen it mentioned on the web. Never saw the original myself, I don't think.
GGD's life must have been exciting, though. His family, per father, was sent to Australia as debtors, he jumped a New Bedford whaler and spent his life at sea. My brothers and I inherited the teeth of a 19th century sperm whale, and I have a very large photo of The Wanderer behind my desk, the last sq.rgd. whaler in the US, which he also served on. The frame (supposedly) is made from timbers taken from the cabin when it was hurricane wrecked in the 20's in the Elizabeth Islands. It's what keeps square rigging before me every day, so when another interest in historical presentation of the LBH inexplicably presented me with a photo of another (and very ugly, my opinion) sq. rgd. ship, I was prepared and able to comment.
Mentioning baseball was to illustrate an example of the difference between a typo and a point of misinformation, is all.
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Post by conz on May 5, 2008 7:49:39 GMT -6
dc,
Interesting sideline...do you feel guilt for your ancestors running slaves from Africa to the new world?
Clair
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 5, 2008 8:32:33 GMT -6
I feel no guilt for that which I did not do. Further, I don't know that any of them did, but certainly possible. What evidence exists that the post Civil War Quaker community in New England, who ran the declining whaling industry, had cast aside their beliefs and role in the Underground Railroad to suddenly import illegal slaves after Emancipation for no market? Fascinating accusation.
They did pick up Cape Verdeans and Portuguese whalers who, like everyone, wanted to come to the US and this was a way. The whales were so few that many came back owing the owners money, and this awful indentured servitude - which worked well on successful voyages - can be called economic slavery, because it was, just like in mining. But it's not what you're referring to.
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Post by Melani on May 5, 2008 8:33:25 GMT -6
Thank you very much, but I do know what I'm talking about. Everyone makes a slip occasionally--except you, of course.
But you still haven't answered my question--why bring up my mistake on the rig of a tall ship in a thread about Donovan's book, instead of on the thread where it was posted? If you are so concerned about such matters, you should have responded to the error some time ago, on the spot. The photo was posted on a thread devoted to personal info about the forum members, not as part of a historical discussion--it did not appear "inexplicably." And it's not even on this forum. My theory is still that you are attacking me for having an opinion that is different from yours, since you have done the same to virtually everybody else on the thread, in the most insulting manner. If that is not the case, please explain.
And speaking of mistakes, how come you don't seem to be able to spell my name correctly when it's written right in front of you? My theory here is that it is another, subtle form of insult.
As for ugly, there's all kinds--Balclutha at least does not go around gratuitously attacking people.
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 5, 2008 8:57:23 GMT -6
This is silly. In the past I'd been asked by post on this board to joing the other. Fred, I think it was. I have no interest, but when I periodically looked at it I saw photos of a square rigged ship, which I thought odd, and thought I recalled that you were the one that sent them in. No idea when they were posted, didn't care.
When we were recently exchanging posts here I added that recalled correction as an addendum. Your serial errors after do not exactly compel that you knew what you were talking about, and so I think I can be forgiven for thinking that. I'll limit myself to joshing Markland in the future.
It does annoy that my postings are laced with 'd'ohs' and admissions of error and stupidity, and yet you and others - none of whom can claim the same readiness to admit error - claim I'm insistent upon being always right. Simply untrue.
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Post by alfuso on May 5, 2008 9:04:31 GMT -6
drkcloud
"While some grew up weeping over Casabon, I grwe (<another typo) up reciting Holmes and at one point had memorized his bit about Old Ironsides, which is the world's most beautiful ship, bar none. There is something about the spacing between fore and main and the whole overall configuration of the 1793's that I find beautiful, gun ports or not. The British frigates, in contrast, look they normally moored outside 24 hour bowling alleys, chewing gum. England had a fetish for ugly, ugly ships, however useful."
I agree with you on that one. Old Ironsides is just a gorgeous piece of work. But then, I grew up in Boston, of Maine heritage.
alfuso
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Post by elisabeth on May 5, 2008 10:41:11 GMT -6
Just out of interest, who or what is "Casabon"? Is that a "misstype"? Or a case of "correctly typed an error"?
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Post by Dark Cloud on May 5, 2008 11:28:10 GMT -6
That's a lazy mistake. I couldn't recall the correct name of the poem, Casabianca, and it was as close as I could come without looking it up. I do that too often, feel no loss of dignity nor self when it's called to my attention, do not pretend it was a tpyo.
There are also days when words like parent look wrong, and I insist it's spelled parant. I cannot be convinced otherwise, and it happens with regularity. It's not a big deal. But confusing the top gallant and the top mast is of the order of claiming people look through a trigger and slowly squeeze the sight. That isn't a typo.
Haven't spent time in Boston for decades, but recall the Jake Wirth German restaurant, sawdust on the floor and great food, and Jimmy's Pier 4, and the open air market by Fanuel Hall, and my father trotting me around all the historic places, including the USS Con., which I adored. I have family in Maine, and we used to summer on Moose Pond, and canoe the Swift and Sacco Rivers and camp, and really enjoyed it all. YOuth is a terrible thing to waste on the young, though.
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Post by fred on May 5, 2008 12:22:30 GMT -6
This is silly. In the past I'd been asked by post on this board to joing the other. Fred, I think it was. Is my name being used in vain here? I do not understand... Darkcloud, without looking it up-- my laziness in the Florida heat knows no bounds-- casabianca is an odd word. If memory serves me it means "the last of anything" and is used by Benteen in describing the miserable packs he was corralling in the move up the Rosebud. How it got to mean that, I have no clue. Casabianca himself-- there was a himself-- was a French naval captain or commander in the late 1700's and was present when the magazine of his ship blew up, killing his son. I think it may have been during Nelson's victory over the French fleet in the Battle of the Nile or Egypt or whatever the hell it was called. Then some obscure female/male/hermaphroditic British/English/U.K./St. George-land/Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Norman/Anglican/Episcopalian/Catholic/Protestant (at the risk of being wrong in usage, I've included them all, or at least all I could think of) poet wrote an even more obscure poem about the brat. How this all ties in to "the last of anything" beats me. I must say, I really enjoyed reading about your family history (seriously). It is fascinating stuff. Much more interesting than my own. Unless of course one wants to delve into the clan member who was hanged for horse-stealing... or chicken poaching; I never did find out. Somehow the family genealogy got derailed when my great-grandmother got to that particular relative. I dare not tell my wife about your sojourns at Moose Pond. She used to go up there, as well. Of course that was quite some time and maybe a relationship or two away, but still, she speaks of it frequently. Cabins and all. Woods, trees, forests... no chiggers, alligators, palm rats, water moccasins, coral snakes, or 106% humidity. If she knew you had been there she would probably insist on speaking to you about it. I wouldn't want that; she would actually humanize you. I really DO enjoy your sailing tales; I'm a landlubber who enjoys anything to do with sailing. By the way, you spelled "Faneuil Hall" wrong. Oh, you got the "Hall" part of it right; it's the "Faneuil" you got wrong. Best wishes, Fred.
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