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Post by Diane Merkel on Dec 17, 2007 0:02:11 GMT -6
Below is a query from a website visitor. The 2000 LBHA Conference was at West Point. Does anyone have this booklet? What can you tell about a manuscript by Richard Roberts, Custer's Personnel Secretary, regarding the Little Bighorn fight, that was reprinted by LBHA in 2000. Please note the following reference from Arrow and Trooper off the web:
"He composed a manuscript of his time at the fort and on the march and what took place the day of the Battle and things going on after the Battle. In this work he spared no one and wrote as he saw it. Once done he showed his work to the General's widow who asked him not to publish it for all the turmoil and hard feelings it would cause. He respected her wishes and gave her the manuscript. The work lay forgotten in her personal belongings until the 1950's when these were bought by Custer scholar Dr. Lawrence A. Frost. Frost would publish the manuscript in a very limited edition just for fellow scholars; this is now a collector item with prices to match. This is the exact re-print done in an Limited Edition of only 200 copies for members of the Little Big Horn Association in 2000. It is a shame for history this material was not published in 1876, as it reveals much even modern writers do not have access to. The history of Custer and the Last Stand would be very different today had it been published to begin with. Custer authority Robert M. Utley has stated no research library on the Last Stand is complete without this reference work."
Can you tell me if this work is available for purchase and does it say anything about Mitch Boyer?
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Post by harpskiddie on Dec 17, 2007 0:54:21 GMT -6
The "book" is titled: "Reminiscences of General Custer: Custer's Last Battle by Richard A. Roberts who was Custer's Secretary in 1876 and on the Last Campaign" and is [or was] available from/through Tom O'Neil on Ebay on a fairly regular basis. It is 38 pages in stiff paper covers - no photos, maps, bibliography, notes or index. If I recall correctly, I got mine either from Tom or from Arrow and Trooper, and it probably cost about 10 bucks.
Roberts was Annie Yates' brother, and hence Yates' brother-in-law. He was a college graduate, and supposedly wrote these papers immediately after the fights on the Little Horn, or soon afterward. In fact, they were written in response to Charles King's "Custer's Last Battle" which appeared in Harper's December 1890, as Roberts states in his opening paragraph.
I'm not entirely sure that Utley made the statement attributed to him as to the merits of the work, since it contains several errors of fact, and is very biased, but it certainly is interesting and gives a lot of background information about Custer, and the march from FAL. Roberts accompanied the command in the capacity of herder for the cattle, and was left behind at Powder River, so that he was not on the final jump after the hostiles.
Roberts does give accounts of the fights, based generally on the official reports of Wallace, Reno and etc., and discusses Terry's final instructions to Custer. There is no mention of Mich Bouyer in the book that I can find , which is not surprising as Roberts might never have seen him or heard of him. The most interesting thing in the whole hymn of praise to Armstrong Custer, to me anyway, is that Calhoun rode a white horse.
If Utley said that no Custer library would be complete without this book, he probably meant it in the literal sense.
Gordie MC
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Post by elisabeth on Dec 17, 2007 6:48:46 GMT -6
Mostly, it's devoted to laying into Reno and Benteen -- so it's interesting that Mrs. Custer wanted it suppressed. (I was naturally hoping there'd be some Tupperware revelations in it, but no such luck.)
One other snippet of interest that he gives concerns the pack train. "Want of sufficient transportation has been the principal cause of delay, citizens' teams finally being hired which permitted the start today ... Forty-five pack mules also accompany the train, and will be used when wagon travel is an impossibility." This is a report he's written for the New York Sun, so he may be fudging the true reason for delay; we're usually told it was Custer, or the weather, or both. However, the pack mules are useful to know about. We've had a number of discussions about when that decision was made. His report is dated May 17th, i.e. the day the expedition set off, so it's clear that pack mules were factored in right from the start.
Gordie, do you happen to know who he's referring to on p. 35 as "one fully conversant with the facts" and whom he then quotes at considerable length? The writing has a faintly familiar ring to it, but I can't place who it is ...
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Post by alfuso on Dec 17, 2007 8:55:19 GMT -6
my favorite tidbit in it is how he writes of having been left behind for lack of a mount. A letter came back to him 2 days later, saying to come forward on the next packet, that there was now a mount for him. And that all the officer had had their heads shaved in anticipation of meeting indians.
He was preparing to go when the next steamboat round the bend was the Far West coming back. . .
alfuso
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Post by harpskiddie on Dec 17, 2007 9:39:43 GMT -6
Linda and Elisabeth:
I'll agree that there are enough little tidbits in it to make it worthwhile having [for 10 bucks], to the same extent that there is often a tiny nugget in the first 10 thousand tons of anyone's placer mine. My ex-wife and I used to own a gold mine; but in the settlement, she got the gold, and I got the shaft.
As to the identity of "the one fully conversant..." I initially assumed that it was a euphemism for "Here is some stuff I just made up, but I want to give it a ring of truth" - a ploy I often use myself. I have no special knowledge on the matter, and possibly not even a "nose" for such things, but I do love a detective story........................
We have then [always assuming "I think" as a general disclaimer - if those are allowed] a man, definitely, who is intimately familiar with the Army and its workings, and pretty well-versed in the LBH and the Seventh; but not a former or serving member of that regiment. An officer, possibly retired. He has an absolute distaste for Reno, and not a heck of a lot of use for those who "shielded" him at the RCOI; but he presents no particular brief for Custer, and fails to mention Benteen at all. He writes well and expresses himself clearly and succinctly [which did not always go hand in hand in the 1890s], with verbiage and persiflage [my old lawyers] kept to a minimum, although he does know how to turn a sarcastic phrase and illustrates a sardonic sense of humor on occasion [sounds like my Grade Six report card].
If anyone cares to wager, I'll go in for a share on Robert G. Carter. But I'd need odds.
Gordie MC former Chief Investigator of the Pembroke Street Boys Club [No Girls Aloud]..........
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Post by elisabeth on Dec 17, 2007 9:57:35 GMT -6
Carter! Of course. I knew the "voice" sounded familiar ...
And Roberts goes on to use the word "poltroon" immediately after, which is a favourite of Carter's -- as with that splendid "pusillanimous poltroon" phrase in his stuff in The Custer Myth. I think you've cracked it, Sherlock.
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Post by Dark Cloud on Apr 11, 2008 16:13:03 GMT -6
Okay, if the retort by Hammerstein turns up, I'll buy.
I wreely will. Page 1998. Mumble.......
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 11, 2008 17:00:22 GMT -6
Below is a query from a website visitor. The 2000 LBHA Conference was at West Point. Does anyone have this booklet? What can you tell about a manuscript by Richard Roberts, Custer's Personnel Secretary, regarding the Little Bighorn fight, that was reprinted by LBHA in 2000. Please note the following reference from Arrow and Trooper off the web:
Can you tell me if this work is available for purchase and does it say anything about Mitch Boyer?
Richard Rogers? Are they turning the booklet into a musical Goddess? I have a copy of the booklet, have re-read it and can confirm that there is no mention of Bouyer in it whatsoever. This is not surprising as Roberts, having been left behind as Harpskiddie says, would not have know about the scout. Hunk
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 11, 2008 21:06:03 GMT -6
How did I turn Richard Roberts into Richard Rogers? Sorry, folks.
Thanks for checking, Oh Hunkie One from over the Chunnel.
Does that run under you? How do you keep from floating into France? How do you get off the island? Do you want to get off the island?
"Some . . . . where o-ver the Chun-nel, skies are blue. . . ."
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Post by BrokenSword on Apr 12, 2008 6:40:07 GMT -6
Diane-
A GREAT IDEA, actually! Custer - The Musical. However, it may take a Mel Brooks to pull it off.
'Springtime ... for Custer ... and the Sioux. DA DA DEE DA DA... Monaseeta is blooming out toooooo...'
A guaranteed Tony Award. Sigh.
M
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 12, 2008 13:14:25 GMT -6
How did I turn Richard Roberts into Richard Rogers? Sorry, folks. Thanks for checking, Oh Hunkie One from over the Chunnel. Does that run under you? How do you keep from floating into France? How do you get off the island? Do you want to get off the island? "Some . . . . where o-ver the Chun-nel, skies are blue. . . ."
Goddess, the grey waters of the English Channel keep the islands afloat, but there is no danger of us drifting into France as the Channel Islands have thrown huge anchors over the side to make sure that we stay firmly fixed between England and France. It was done in such a way that we remained geographically closer to France so that p*ssed off the English, then became British Crown Dependencies so that p*ssed off the French. So we have the worst of both worlds, English cooking and French based law. We get off the islands by leaping in into the sea screaming 'Get us out of here.' Do we want to get off the islands? You betcha. That is why every few years I visit the LBH, the very heart of human civilisation, profound debating circles and unemotional points of view, so different from the semi-primeval island societies. "If I only had a brain"! Hunk
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 12, 2008 13:31:07 GMT -6
Diane- A GREAT IDEA, actually! Custer - The Musical. However, it may take a Mel Brooks to pull it off. 'Springtime ... for Custer ... and the Sioux. DA DA DEE DA DA... Monaseeta is blooming out toooooo...' A guaranteed Tony Award. Sigh. M Why do we need Mel Brooks? A certain gentleman who shall be nameless, but is otherwise known as BrokenSword of the Nuthouse once described ME as the greatest song writer of this century after I penned the Nuthouse Immortals marching song. Perhaps that was my 15 minutes of fame, but Goddess may I offer my talents for your consideration as follows?:- (To the music of Oklahoma) Li.....ttle Big Horn where the Sioux were camped along the plain, And the Cheyenne too, more than a few, Were ready to give Long Hair some pain. Hunk - FKoEaSS
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Post by BrokenSword on Apr 12, 2008 14:32:14 GMT -6
Hunk - "...once described ME as the greatest song writer of this century.."
Quite true! (Perhaps I was merely prodding you to step forward? Volunteers have ONLY themselves to blame.)
...may I suggest the old favorite 'Easter Parade'?
In your best war bonnet... with all the feathers on it.
You'll be the grandest warrior... In the vic...tor...y parade.
BrokenBunny
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Post by Diane Merkel on Apr 12, 2008 22:52:06 GMT -6
You both are far too generous with your talents. I'm sure someone is stealing your ideas at this very moment. What talent! What great singing voices! After Tony, it will be Oscar. Then the Nobel Peace Prize cannot be far behind.
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Post by "Hunk" Papa on Apr 13, 2008 12:55:46 GMT -6
Hunk - "...once described ME as the greatest song writer of this century.."Quite true! (Perhaps I was merely prodding you to step forward? Volunteers have ONLY themselves to blame.) ...may I suggest the old favorite 'Easter Parade'? In your best war bonnet... with all the feathers on it. You'll be the grandest warrior... In the vic...tor...y parade. BrokenBunny
Dat's my boy dat said dat! Everybody wants ta get inta the act. It's a catastastroke!!! No, No, No!!! This is a musical about military men so we want none of your civilian, paintywaist tunes included. How many times do I have to tell you that if it's not simple it didn't happen so why do you have to complicate this simple battle with 'Easter Parade?' What we must look for are rousing marching songs like "Inka Dinka Doo......O What a Tune" so that there is no doubt about the martial content of the musical. So re-think it boy, or leave it to more qualified men such as Major Dennis Bloodnok of Roper's Light Horse. Colonel (Brevet Idiot) J. Aloysius Grittpipe-Thynne Goodnight Mrs. Calabash, wherever you are.
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