|
Post by Scout on Oct 14, 2005 5:59:48 GMT -6
This has to be the book every Custerphile dreamed about as a child. I can't say enough about this modern masterpiece...and the pictures, wow! I pull it out all of the time and go through it page by page. Uniforms, guns, photos, documents. Invaluable for research. If you don't have this book rush out and order it, and while it is pricey, about $100, it is certainly worth every penny of it. I place it in my top five Custer books of all time.
|
|
|
Post by jdmackintosh on Oct 25, 2005 17:40:46 GMT -6
You are right, is a great book but yet I hardly hear that many people talk about it. Carefully going through it can only be described as akin to visiting your dream Custer Museum. Superb quality of photographs, belongs on everyone's bookshelf.
|
|
|
Post by Lawtonka on Apr 30, 2006 16:25:03 GMT -6
John you are right, I have not heard much talk about Swanson's either. On the other hand, I am not too sure how many people here in SC even know who Custer was The Civil War seems to be the subject most around here like to talk about. Funny thing, some of my friends who enjoy metal detecting almost seem to shun Indian War Relics when they are found. To most Civil War Buffs, Indian Wars is just that period after the Civil War was over. Just kinda funny. I'll bet a trip to LBH would spark an interest to thes guys, they just don't know. Of all of my books, my favorite titles are Exploring With Custer, Where Custer Fell, and G.A. Custer - His life and Times. Can't wait to see what great work comes out next !
|
|
bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
|
Post by bhist on May 1, 2006 0:04:15 GMT -6
Lawtonka
I think the next book will be Jerry Greene’s "Stricken Field: Little Bighorn, 1876-2003. An Administrative History of Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument” -- University of Oklahoma Press. I’ve had a chance to read some of the manuscript and it’s outstanding.
It will cover the complete administrative history of the battlefield up to the dedication of the Indian Memorial. Yes, it will include periods when Custer organizations carried on their wars against the NPS (many of which were motivated by individuals concerned more with their egos than the betterment of the battlefield). However, Jerry treats these subjects in a fair and amicable way – as we can expect from him.
Look for the Friends of the Little Bighorn Battlefield to publish an exclusive limited edition book with the author granting us exclusive use. I’m very excited about this. Can’t tell you when, but my guess is 1 to 1 ½ years from now. I spoke with Jerry this past week and so far he has 70 illustrations that could accompany the book. However, he’s not sure how many of those will be included – cost and time is a driving factor.
Jerry also reviewed what I’ve edited of the Luce footage and has been a big help with identifying people, places, and events. We’ll premiere this documentary at the Friends fundraiser event June 23 with a future DVD release down the road. So, stay tuned for that as well.
|
|
|
Post by Lawtonka on May 2, 2006 9:50:23 GMT -6
Sounds like a very interesting piece of work. I will look forward to it. Also, as much as I would like to have come, does not look like I will be able to make it to the anniversary this year. I am glad to know there will be a DVD on the Luce footage. I am sure I would like to get a copy.
Just think, over the years, of all of the movie film shot, slides, and snapshots that have been taken by visitors and resident rangers. I'll bet there is some pretty good stuff sitting out there in attics and closets.
Thanks Tim
|
|
bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
|
Post by bhist on May 3, 2006 0:56:39 GMT -6
Sorry you won't make it Tim. As far as other footage -- the Friends will be providing more of that down the road.
|
|
|
Post by Scout on May 3, 2006 8:55:13 GMT -6
Tim...couldn't agree with you more on your three book choices, all great. As you know I too live in the south and find there is very little interest in the indian wars here although there was an indian wars here in the 1700's...and quite an extensive one at that. But the civil war seems to be the primary interest here. I have a metal detector and have found numerous bullets, buttons, shell fragments but was really excited once when I found an arrow head lying on top of the ground. As I understand it metal arrows were produced by the millions at one point as a trade item, but don't think they made there appearance till long after the south shipped the native americans to indian territory.
Bob...Greene's book sounds great. I think the history of the park is just as interesting as the battle. I think that is one of the reasons I liked Robert Utley's CUSTER AND ME so much. It offered a unique insight into the political side of how the park was run through the years. Can't wait for Greene's book though...can't seem to get enough of that stuff.
|
|
|
Post by Lawtonka on May 3, 2006 9:54:19 GMT -6
Yep. I like learning the history of the National Parks too. I was pretty much interested when I visited Yellowstone and learned about the military managment of the parks prior to the Park Service being formed. Thanks to old Teddy, we have a great system that has preserved many of our landmarks.
I once lived in Black Mountain, NC. Just down the mountain in Old Fort, there is a large Arrowhead Monument to the old Indian Wars you talk about in that area. Think about it, a little town named Old Fort. It is amazing how much history is under our feet that we take for a grain of salt.
|
|
bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
|
Post by bhist on May 3, 2006 13:05:47 GMT -6
Tim & Scout: Since you all enjoy reading histories of the NPS I can recommend another great book. It’s Melody Webb’s “A Woman in the Great Outdoors.” Interestingly, Melody is Utley’s wife who he, of course, mentions in his:”Custer and Me.” www.amazon.com/gp/product/0826331750/qid=1146682235/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/103-4719229-0323824?s=books&v=glance&n=283155When I attended Utley’s lifetime achievement award in Denver last March another family member was being honored, my girlfriends’ brother, Bob Blair, was also receiving an award for his book “William Henry Jackson’s: The Pioneer Photographer” www.amazon.com/gp/product/0890134359/qid=1146682423/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-4719229-0323824?s=books&v=glance&n=283155Melody was there with Utley and I introduced her to Bob Blair who spent many years working in the Teton’s as a rafting guide. As our conversation progressed about the Tetons, Melody’s work there, and her interest in LBJ, she was shocked to discover that Bob was a witness to LBJ visiting the Tetons. Melody was excited to learn this news. While Melody was superintendent at the LBJ National Historical Park in Texas she had documented the very few national parks LBJ had visited. She always wondered if he had visited the Tetons and as a result of a freak introduction, she received her answer. Anyway, her book is a fascinating look at the park service in the 70s when men mostly dominated the NPS.
|
|
|
Post by Scout on May 4, 2006 6:02:18 GMT -6
Bob...yea, I'll have to get Melody's book. I have numerous books on the National Parks...the history of the parks is another thing I enjoy researching. The late Don Rickey, Jr.'s book on the Custer Battlefield is another one I enjoy. Rickey's book along with 'Where Custer Fell' and 'Custer and Me' are in someways companion pieces to each other.
John and Tim...I think the main drawback to the Swanson book is the hefty pricetag. Most readers will hesitate on throwing out $100 on a book they have never seen.. .But I have yet to find anyone who bought it that was not glad they did. The production costs must have been enormous. Bob...interesting tidbit on LBJ... I have seen LBJ and JFK in person many years ago and plan on checking out LBJ ranch on next trip to the big T.
Bob... will Greene's book have tons of photos from LBH archives? I'm sure they're hundreds that have never been by the public stashed away in the vaults. I'll have to check out the Jackson book as well.
|
|
|
Post by fred on May 4, 2006 8:04:45 GMT -6
Y'all--
Is Greene that good? He seems like the kind of fellow you want to like, but all I have from him is a handy, but poorly written (or maybe printed), booklet, titled, "Evidence and the Custer Enigma." I get the impression that he IS good; Michno-like. I am hesitant to buy anything, however, unless I get an OK from guys like you.
I never liked Utley, but since I was taken to task on these boards by people I respect, I am now determined to read some of his later stuff & now parrot the "good guy Utley" line. I do not mean that as sarcasm, either. I just believe I was completely wrong about him, rushing to judgment (as is my usual wont, unfortunately). Sorry.
The Swanson book is gorgeous, probably the best of its type ever done. Richard Upton recommended it to me, so I figured I had to have it. I will say this: if you are a Custer or LBH nut, no collection is really complete without it, even though it is strictly a "picture book."
Best wishes, Fred.
|
|
bhist
Full Member
Posts: 221
|
Post by bhist on May 4, 2006 12:19:45 GMT -6
Fred: That is a very honest question. Yes, not only is Greene that good, but he is IMO the best historian researching and writing today on the subject of the American West. You can’t even begin to put Michno (who is good) in the same category as Greene. Michno is a humble student compared to him. You can read some reviews of Greene’s books (“Finding Sand Creek” and “Washita”) at -- www.friendslittlebighorn.com/Books-on-the-horizon.htm -- I have to strongly disagree with you; Greene’s enigma is a superb book and it was the first one to tackle the subject of archeology at LBH. Remember, too, that Greene wrote that book while working as a seasonal ranger at the battlefield – he was very young then. I wonder what any of our works look like from our younger days? As far as Utley, I’m not sure why you never liked him before coming to this forum. I’m curious about that. What is interesting is both of these historians are academic historians – they really know how to research a story and as far as I know I haven’t found circumstances where they break the rules of research and analysis as so many of the other folks do that write about the LBH. Scout – Yes, Greene’s administrative history will include many photos. As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread; so far, Greene has selected 70 illustrations but he’s not sure how many of those will make the final cut. Rickey’s book is good, but unfortunately it is full of errors. That is why I’m glad Greene is redoing the subject and its entire history. It will be a perfect edition to the books you mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by Treasuredude on May 4, 2006 19:38:13 GMT -6
Greene is a great writer. I recently read his MORNING STAR DAWN in one sitting (which is very unusual for me). At the LBHA conference last summer I had the pleasure of visiting with him for a short time. He was here in Pierre not too long ago promoting his new book about Fort Randall. I unfortunately didn't find out about it until a couple days after it was over.
Utley is a gem. His Cavalier in Buckskin still ranks up there with the best of them.
|
|
|
Post by Lawtonka on May 4, 2006 19:42:34 GMT -6
I would like to comment on Greene's Evidence and the Custer Enigma This is one little book that you surely can not judge by its cover. I think the mission for this little book was well accomplished. It is kind of like going to a museum. A lot of people go through a museum and scan the artifacts and walk away not really understanding what they have see with their own eyes.
Among the larger, collectible books on the subject, these small pieces of work contain a huge amount of information at a bargain price. The majority of projects done by archaeologist are documented but only to sit on the shelves of Universities and remain pretty much unknown to the public. Greene, as well as Scott and Fox have contributed greatly to making their studies public. Sandy Barnard has done an excellent job of documenting the official digs after the fires at LBH. I have other similar books from authors such as Fred Werner who have made some great contributions to document their relic finds along with the "shoe leather history" experienced by them.
To get a real scope of Greene's ability to research , Washita is one great piece of work. I don't think I have ever read any other book that covers this subject as well. I highly recommend it to anyone who has not read it and is interested in finding out what took place there.
|
|
|
Post by fred on May 4, 2006 22:24:48 GMT -6
It appears that once again I am being taken to task-- rightly so!-- by guys who know a lot more than I do.
bhist-- I read Greene's "...Enigma" book some time ago & without glancing through it again, I remember disagreeing w/ several of the things he wrote. I think I sort of classified them-- & please don't hold me to this-- as not being terribly astute or way off the mark. It is just a recollection, nothing more. The true measure of the book, however (& I will give you an example in a moment), is that his archaeological work is still in my notes. If you ever saw those notes, you would understand how (personally) impressive that is. I am constantly purging them, constantly updating them; I work w/ those notes almost every day & they contain some fascinating things. They are basically a synopsis of any number of authors, any number of theories, comparisons, & opinions. I stick author next to author, historian next to historian, & on & on. And as I said, I delete junk; Greene's work is still in there.
I guess this is a fault of mine that I am trying to overcome & I use these boards as part of that effort. Since I have so little time to go over so much material, I buy what sounds or seems "sexy," if you know what I mean. If I don't see certain key names or key authors involved w/ a particular book, I don't bother w/ it. For example, if I am interested in a book about Vietnam & I don't see the name Bill DePuy in the index, the book goes back on the shelf. You cannot write a book on that war that is worth reading without discussing William E. DePuy.
I like Michno a lot; I like Liddic a lot, but each one of those guys puts forward some of the dumbest tactics to explain certain events, of any writers I have read. You can tell neither of them spent a lot of time in Tactics 101. I certainly will accept your opinion of Greene at face value & start looking into some of his work. Any recommendations? LBH only, please.
As for Utley, I was never impressed w/ much of what he said when I saw him on TV. I am generally unimpressed w/ TV-talking heads & for some reason Utley never seemed to come through to me as very authoritative. Then, as I read more & more on the LBH, Utley's name constantly popped up & generally in situations I would disagree w/. Then too, there was his habit of changing opinions, some of which writers would allude to. I figured, wow, this guy (Utley) doesn't know what he is talking about! Well, I posted something like this before on this site & did I ever get my come-uppance! So it appears I was totally wrong about him. The irony is that I am always changing my opinions about people & events connected to the battle, I bridle against those who won't change theirs, especially when confronted by solid evidence, & here I am condemning Utley for doing exactly what I am preaching. So now, my opinion of him has shifted from negative to positive (skipping neutral even though I have never read anything he has done), simply because so many people I respect-- such as you-- recommend him so highly.
Anyway, that is my mea culpa. I can certainly see I have a lot more to learn than just how the battle of the LBH unfolded. For that, I thank you all.
Best wishes, Fred.
|
|