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Post by Dietmar on Feb 15, 2006 7:27:05 GMT -6
Ephriam,
thanks.
Would this mean that the father of Little Hawk´s father (Make the Song/Crazy Horse) was Black Elk?
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Post by ephriam on Feb 15, 2006 21:23:26 GMT -6
Richard Hardorff, in his little book on the genealogy of Crazy Horse, shows three men in successive generations named Black Elk. He lists the father of the Black Elk I and Makes the Song as "unknown."
Black Elk himself however said that there were four men by this name: "To begin with, I am the fourth of the name Black Elk." (DeMallie, The Sixth Grandfather, p. 102). Unless I am reading this incorrectly (which of course I very well could be!), he is suggesting that his great-grandfather was also named Black Elk -- the person whom Hardorff listed as unknown.
ephriam
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Post by micheline on Apr 6, 2006 9:57:38 GMT -6
hi - i am a new member and have been waiting since 1995 for others to discover little hawk. i do believe that there is a misidentification here.
i went to the southwest museum in l a and also to the british library in london as part of my search. i do believe that this little hawk is the same one who fought with the northern cheyenne and is referred to in mari sandoz' book as being a leading figure in their flight.
This little hawk is son of gentle horse and brown sparrow woman. i have been in touch with the nmai and had the later photo of him as well as the one taken at the fort. i do believe that he later went down to join the southern cheyenne and then at the end of the century rejoined the nothern cheyenne. there is plenty of references to him in george grinnells books on the cheyenne. Little Hawk was part of the moiseyu, his mother was sioux and he was related to crazy horse through the oglala.
i will check back to this site tomorrow - sorry this is garbled a bit but i am a public computer and have limited time.
it is the first time in 10 years that i have found others who have seen his photo and been drawn to discover who he is.
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Post by ephriam on Apr 6, 2006 21:16:24 GMT -6
Micheline:
You are correct that we must always be careful when identifying the photographs. There were several individuals during this period named Little Hawk, including a prominent Brule as well as the Northern Cheyenne that you mentioned.
However, the case of the two portrait sof Little Hawk taken by D.S. Mitchell (one by himself and one with Lieut. William Philo Clark), there is little doubt that this is the Oglala individual by this name. Remember that by the time Mitchell arrived at the Red Cloud Agency in the fall of 1877 to take his protrait series, of which this is part, the Cheyenne had already been sent to Indian Territory (Oklahoma).
ephriam
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Post by micheline on Apr 7, 2006 3:43:59 GMT -6
hi - i posted a message on here yesterday and it did go on the board but today it has vanished and i have not received a communication to tell me why.
i do strongly believe that you are under a misapprehension about the identity of little hawk. i spent five years tracing him and spoke to other experts.
could someone explain to me why my message was removed - i will be online for another hour if anyone has a take on this.
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Post by micheline on Apr 7, 2006 3:46:55 GMT -6
oops - just found this page. the thing is that little hawk the northern cheyenne, son of gentle horse, served with casey - he was one of his crew. the problem with getting info on the northern cheyenne is that they dont like to give any out!! little hawk later went down to oklahoma and apparently married the daughter of george bent and then returned to the northern cheyenne where he served as amedicine man (see george grinnell) he is referred to in the book by wooden leg who also served at the same time. Micheline: You are correct that we must always be careful when identifying the photographs. There were several individuals during this period named Little Hawk, including a prominent Brule as well as the Northern Cheyenne that you mentioned. However, the case of the two portrait sof Little Hawk taken by D.S. Mitchell (one by himself and one with Lieut. William Philo Clark), there is little doubt that this is the Oglala individual by this name. Remember that by the time Mitchell arrived at the Red Cloud Agency in the fall of 1877 to take his protrait series, of which this is part, the Cheyenne had already been sent to Indian Territory (Oklahoma). ephriam
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Post by michigander on Apr 7, 2006 4:10:31 GMT -6
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Post by Dietmar on Apr 8, 2006 14:55:27 GMT -6
Micheline, I would support Ephriam´s statement about the previous Little Hawk photos. I think it is clear that they show the Oglala Little Hawk aka Long Face. Michigander´s photo by Curtis shows the Brule Little Hawk. Actually there were two prominent Cheyenne named Little Hawk. - The first one was a Southerner, a member of the Dog Soldier band, who was also called Young Bull Robe - the other Little Hawk (probably the one you mentioned above) was a Northern Cheyenne, who was a Elkhorn Scraper society member . He was fighting in the battles at the Rosebud and LBH when he was twenty-eight years old. He left his account to Grinnell in 1908 (see Jerome Greene: Lakota and Cheyenne and Peter Powell: People of the Sacred Mountain) Here is a photo labeled Little Hawk, Northern Cheyenne 1880s: (Judging from his face, it is also possible that it pictured the Brule photographed later by Curtis) Best Regards Dietmar
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Post by grahamew on Apr 9, 2006 3:21:23 GMT -6
What seals it for me is the resemblance to the Little Hawk in the later delegation photos.
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Post by micheline on Apr 19, 2006 4:58:42 GMT -6
What seals it for me is the resemblance to the Little Hawk in the later delegation photos. hi again. thanks for the replies. i appreciate your patience. my problem is that i am not in the same country as my research notes at present. gentle horse gave his son little hawk his own peace medal that was given to him when he went to washington. i believe that is recounted in grinnells book. i am sure that i read somewhere in more than one source that little hawk, crazy horses' cousin (aged about 14) died at little bighorn. i think it was in black elks writings and also possibly on a little bighorn site once somewhere . sorry i am not being very precise, when i return to england i will dig out all my notes and see if i can add more substance to the above. according to mari sandoz, the cheyenne little hawk left the main group of n. cheyenne and was not part of dull knife's band at time of recapture. little hawk would have been in his late thirties, early forties when the 1977 picture was taken and i can tell you that at the nmai they do believe that he is little hawk the cheyenne. i have no problem if i have been mistaken. i did wonder if they were one and the same but having looked at the age you give him it cannot be - it is five years since i stopped pursuing this and i cant remember exactly when i worked out l h was born but definitely younger than little hawk oglala's age as given on this thread. i have access to a pc for the next couple of weeks so hope to learn more from others here if possible.
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Post by micheline on May 22, 2006 8:10:14 GMT -6
hi - i am back in england now and do believe that YOU ARE ALL CORRECT AND I WUZ WRONG (AAARGH) and i have been mistaken for a long long time !!!
i remember now that when i went to see colin f taylor (who has authored a number of books on native americans and their cultures and artifacts - and used a clip of the early little hawk photo on the front of one of his books) he pointed out that the circular shaped disc on little hawk's head was associated with the sioux.
also i checked my emails with the nmai when i sent for the photos of little hawk at pine ridge and he was listed as a sioux.
hearty apologies to everyone for being an annoying little tic.
so glad to be able to update my information on little hawk from this message board too.
peace - micheline
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Post by grahamew on Dec 28, 2006 18:34:37 GMT -6
While I was searching around for the Mitchell photo of his dad, I came across one of Little Hawk's sons, Luke Little Hawk, known as Pesla, or Bald Head: [Replaced missing photo - DM]
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Post by Scout on Dec 28, 2006 21:25:51 GMT -6
Excellent quality Graham and michigander....who were the photographers?
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