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Post by noggy on Nov 6, 2023 14:02:39 GMT -6
I keep finding threads that dead-end when I still have questions! Is there evidence that Custer and Elliott were on the outs at Washita? I swear I read something about it, but maybe it was someone's opinion, or the recounting of someone's opinion. Fred mentioned that Elliott was a popular officer and probably straddled the fence on many things - as (I would imagine) a direct result of Custer not being popular. That kind of tension could break even a strictly professional friendship. The thing is, I can't get past the fact that Custer didn't go look for Elliott - his good friend. To me it implies things were chillier between them than anyone knew. That kind of bad blood seems like it would be obvious to anyone who spent time with the two men, or with one when the other wasn't around. Jenny Well. Elliott stepped in for Custer when he desert....left for a while. And he was popular during his "reign". But I doubt GAC disliked him or anything like it, he let him lead both the scout and a battalion during the attack. I don't see how GAC did anything wrong when it comes to Elliott. The man took off without orders or telling anyone where he was going. GAC only learned of this later, on and at a time when the area was already seeing swarms of warriors rushing to from nearby camps. And he DID send out a search party. But it was getting dark, ammo was low, troopers and horses probably exhausted and freezing, and they were being surrounded by an enemy who outnumbered them. Where to start looking for a renegade officer and 17 others? Only using women and children as human shields let the rest of the 7th extract alive. Had GAC gone looking around the hills, we'd never gotten a LBH. Which I guess would be a good thing. Or maybe we would, just with another American cast? I know Benteen felt GAC left Elliott, but Elliott was a close friend of his. He tried getting or instance Clark to back him up on this but Clark refused. GAC did the sound thing, as did Reno and Benteen when not just heading off blindly into the jaws of the enemy to look around. Noggy
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Jenny
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Post by Jenny on Nov 7, 2023 12:12:29 GMT -6
True. I think there are innumerable nuances to this topic. However, GAC seems to regard his comrades as disposable. Maybe that's a necessary thing, that mindset, in warfare. Otherwise these guys would be falling apart all over the place. Elliott seemed very much like GAC, minus the extraordinary luck.
J
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Jenny
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Post by Jenny on Nov 7, 2023 12:13:22 GMT -6
...AND, you are correct Noggy. They kinda had to get outta there at Washita.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 7, 2023 13:46:45 GMT -6
I suppose being a commander in the field makes you resilient to the cost of lives, you except losses, especially if you are experienced. Some losses come from your own decisions, some from the mistakes made by you subordinates, At the end of the day, you took the kings shilling and you follow orders, fighting close quarters will be costly, so I don’t think Custer was any different to any other aggressive commander who has his orders too.
Ian
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Post by noggy on Nov 8, 2023 4:12:53 GMT -6
One thing is for sure; few would risk the lives of 700 to go look for a couple who disobeyed orders and just took off. That is not standard procedure, to put it that way. GAC did truy to locate them, and the bottom line is that Elliott pretty much screwed himself over. If the story is true, he got what he yelled he was going for.
Noggy
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Post by herosrest on Nov 8, 2023 8:38:35 GMT -6
Elliot went missing in the field for a good numbers of days during the regiments service in Kansas. A long time back, I had the habit of browsing and skimming old history accounts which searches threw up. There are quite a few. It's arcanne study but worthwhile now and again. I don't have the source but if I can figure it out some time, i'll link it.
The underlying point, expendability is of the real world and all wars and battles and all endeavour. It is a, the fact of life reality.
For m0liitary, that simply comes down to orders. Plain and simple. The imitial and following waves assaulting Normandy beaches in 1944, were expendable.
Reno's battalion at LBH was expendable.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 8, 2023 15:10:42 GMT -6
For m0liitary, that simply comes down to orders. Plain and simple. The imitial and following waves assaulting Normandy beaches in 1944, were expendable Yeah, my dad was in the second wave on Juno beach, he rolled off a LCT on his Crusader AA Tank to find dead Canadians everywhere. Ian
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Post by herosrest on Nov 8, 2023 16:38:35 GMT -6
Operation Jubilee.
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Post by herosrest on Nov 8, 2023 16:57:43 GMT -6
In terms of topic and the...... battle, I dug out Terry's 'Painful Duty' official report - fired off without second thought whilst enveloped in practical 'What do we do now!' littlebighorn.info/Articles/terryre1.htmThere have been many assessments of the attack made during a century and a half with document slumbering in the cellar and ignored in the round. Benteen took his command to Ford A where they would have crossed and engaged. Reno had abandoned his assault and offensive action. Support was provided to Reno and from where he expected it to arrive in terms of his post battle outlook. That is a very simple measure of study and understanding which hallmarks worthwhile opinion. Benteen went for Ford A and stated this to the expedition commander. He mentioned it to his wife a week later. Such is life.
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 9, 2023 10:23:19 GMT -6
No HR, operation Jubilee was the Dieppe raid, which funny enough my Uncle Peter was at Dieppe and was awarded the military medal linkMy Dad landed on Normandy on Juno beach, he was attached to Canadians, my uncle Peter also took part in the normandy campaign as he landed with his commando unit on Sword beach. The Normandy landings is my favourite subject, even visit the beaches in 2018. Ian
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Post by herosrest on Nov 10, 2023 11:28:03 GMT -6
Good Lord, Lovat's Lament..... linkThey were expendable. Simple reality. An incredible generation.
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Jenny
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Post by Jenny on Nov 10, 2023 11:39:58 GMT -6
I concede 😝
J
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 10, 2023 14:54:27 GMT -6
Lord Lovat, I refer to my uncle Peter again.
Ian
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 11, 2023 14:42:07 GMT -6
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Post by Yan Taylor on Nov 12, 2023 7:16:56 GMT -6
Jenny your avatar is the most colourful one have every seen, really stands out, even on a small smart phone screen.
Ian
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