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Post by markland on Mar 28, 2006 10:22:39 GMT -6
Forgive the intrusion, but I thought I should bring wyllyams' original post over here so the thread will be in context. The following is Reply No. 61, which was posted on March 27, 2006, on the Indian Wars Book Collection thread on the Book Collections board:Re Frederick Charles Henry Augustus Wyllyams. I know the Thread was started some time ago but I have only just found it thanks to the Guys at Fort Wallace Museum. Frederick was my Great x2 Grandfather (maternal). I have recently confirmed from the pension Records that he is the right Fred. I am still trying to trace his full family but he is the son of a Army Surgeon. A year before he arrived in the US to join the Army he married Eliza Matilda Turner. Just after the birth of a daughter 8 months later he left for the US. Still trying to trace how and when. He is described on his marriage cert as a Mariner. I have been trying to gain more information but various web sites have differant tales of the details of his death. From the pension records I have letters from another sargent who says he joined with 'Fred' and explained to his wife how Fred had died.. His wife did not know he had joined the Army but later recieved a US federal pension of $8 per quarter. I will try and add more details as I find them. Thanks for the photograph. Its the best one so far. If anyone has any book titles which explain the events and background please let me know. I am based in Herefordshire England. Steve Weston * * * Below is Markland's post: * * * Steve, in response to your post in the Bookboards about Wyllams, here is the data from the Regular Army Register of Enlistments. Frederick Wyllams enlisted on November 21, 1866 in Philadelphia, PA. The enlistment officer was Capt. Mason. Wyllams was signed up for a five-year enlistment period since he "selected" cavalry instead of infantry (the infantry still had the three-year tour). He gives as his birthplace London, England and states that his previous occupation was as a clerk. He also states that his age was twenty-five. His physical description is that he had hazel eyes, dark hair and a fair complexion. His height was five foot five inches. He was assigned to Co. "G", Seventh Cavalry and was killed in action with Indians near Ft. Wallace, Kansas on June 26, 1867. Best of wishes (and welcome to the boards), Billy
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Post by wyllyams on Mar 31, 2006 2:49:16 GMT -6
Billy I am suddenly concerned. You say his age is given as 25 on enlistment in 1866. On his marriage certificate in Bristol Nov 1865 his age is given as 33. I have ordered a copy from Washington as at present I only have the pension files. I will check BDM here in the Uk for 1841
Steve
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Post by markland on Mar 31, 2006 10:00:19 GMT -6
Billy I am suddenly concerned. You say his age is given as 25 on enlistment in 1866. On his marriage certificate in Bristol Nov 1865 his age is given as 33. I have ordered a copy from Washington as at present I only have the pension files. I will check BDM here in the Uk for 1841 Steve Steve, I will confirm that I did not look at the age incorrectly next week if/when I get over to the National Archives in Kansas City. Of course, it may have simply been that he deliberately gave the younger age to avoid having any problems due to being too old to enlist-I can't remember the cut-off age in 1866 but perhaps Steve Wilk or someone else knows. I think 40 Miles a Day has that information also. If I can find my copy I will look it up. Billy
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Post by elisabeth on Apr 1, 2006 5:57:02 GMT -6
I couldn't find it in Rickey, but there's something in They Died With Custer (Scott/Willey/Connor) -- page 61. It says:
"The maximum age for first enlistment was more rigid than the minimum age. It was 30 years for the cavalry and had remained the same for decades (Ewing 1894:178), although the maximum age was 45 during the Civil War (Bartholow 1863:178). Once a man enlisted, however, reenlistments could occur well past the age of thirty."
So yes, that does look like a good explanation!
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Post by wyllyams on Apr 2, 2006 2:12:10 GMT -6
Thanks for all this information guys. This seems to make sense. As per the archives at Kansas, are they likely to have additional information which is not at Washington? I did wounder if I could trace the letters sent from Fredericks Wife to the army. Although they are quoted in replies to his wife there are none in the Pension file. I have applied for Fredericks service records. Ron McCoy at the History department in Kansas says when he applied they could not find any. (Time will tell). Anyway re this area of History not directly involved with Frederick Wyllyams you will be pleased to know my wife came back from the shopping with my first Book on the subject. I have also ordered two of my own . Give me a week or two and my comments and questions may not be so narrow.
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Post by markland on Apr 2, 2006 6:58:59 GMT -6
Steve, the Washington D. C. archives is the mother-lode for researchers! The data that you are looking for will only be found there unless it was filmed at some point. Kansas City is a regional depository for federal files from KS, MO, NE, IA, and I believe the Dakotas as well as all the census films along with a plethora of other films. Here is the direct link to NARA's Military & Service Records section: www.archives.gov/research/order/vets-records.htmlBest of wishes, Billy
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Post by gary on May 17, 2006 0:09:31 GMT -6
Hi, I am a new member (based in the UK). I have been researching Wyllyams for some time, but have become stuck recently trying to access his pension records (which deal with his widow's pension application). I understand from Ron McCoy that his service record is missing. Enquiries of Eton college seem to show that he did not attend that school. I have had no luck in tracing him as a merchant seaman in the UK or his father as an army surgeon in the UK National Archives. He seems to have come from the Bristol area of the UK, but other than that, I have drawn a blank. My analysis of the various reports of his death suggest that the famous Bell photograph was staged, rather than being taken on the battlefield as is usually suggetsed. He was buried at Fort Wallace, but his body was subsequently moved to Fort Leavenworth where it remains.
Gary
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Post by Diane Merkel on May 17, 2006 0:57:28 GMT -6
Hello, Gary, and welcome. I cannot help you with sources, but I'm wondering if this is the photo you mean? freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~familyinformation/fpk/wyllyams.jpgIf so, do you mean that the arrows were placed there for the purpose of making the photo more dramatic? I'm wondering what the purpose would be. The photo would be shocking with or without the arrows.
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Post by elisabeth on May 17, 2006 2:06:53 GMT -6
Bell's account makes it clear that he did visit the battlefield in the immediate aftermath; it makes sense that he would, as a medical doctor, when there could be wounded to treat. And he definitely implies he took the picture on the spot: "as he lay". His very minute description includes the arrows, and I don't doubt that the photo reflects the sight he saw. However -- it's hard to believe (though not impossible) that his first thought was to grab his camera as well as his medical bag. And if he did, why not more photos? E.g. of a battlefield scattered with corpses? So I'm in two minds about this.
Whether they could have transported Wyllyams' corpse back to Fort Wallace complete with arrows I don't know. I suppose it's just possible. Or possible that if any of the arrows came adrift en route, they could have been replaced for the purposes of the photo: not to fake anything, but simply to recreate the original reality.
I haven't yet been able to pin down a precise date for the photo: whether they recovered the corpses the same day, or the next, or what. Nor for the burial. I think it's Theodore R. Davis who remarks that the air of Kansas is so dry that bodies don't decompose, but simply sort of mummify -- so perhaps they could have kept the corpses on hand for several days before burying them. (I'm intrigued by this, obviously, for Keogh reasons in particular; one of his letters implies that he ordered the photograph taken. At the time of the Barnitz fight, he was away from Wallace on escort duty with General Hancock; but Bell didn't leave the fort until after Keogh's return ... So if Gary's right about the staging, it's just conceivable that Keogh wasn't exaggerating!)
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Post by markland on May 17, 2006 5:38:27 GMT -6
Re: Ft. Leavenworth reinterment of Sgt. Wyllams. Here is a snapshot of his grave marker at Ft. Leavenworth National Cemetery. Also, this is the URL for the his original Ft. Wallace interment record. He is on line 4. Note the surname spelling is "Williams." tinyurl.com/zlc9aHave a good day, Billy
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Post by elisabeth on May 17, 2006 6:02:14 GMT -6
Billy, that interment record is just wonderful. (A pity it doesn't give date of burial as well as date of death, which could have solved the photo question, but even so ... superb.)
Fascinating to see, from the grave numbers, that they can't have had any deaths at the post until this spate of disasters begins in June '67. (Poor Keogh must have been livid. "The moment my back is turned ...") Also great to see who the cholera victims were. And -- how interesting that they've listed Charles Johnson, the shot deserter, as "killed by Indians". Tact? A deliberate lie? Or just a clerical error?
Thanks so much for posting this. It's great.
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Post by markland on May 17, 2006 7:40:57 GMT -6
Billy, that interment record is just wonderful. (A pity it doesn't give date of burial as well as date of death, which could have solved the photo question, but even so ... superb.) Fascinating to see, from the grave numbers, that they can't have had any deaths at the post until this spate of disasters begins in June '67. (Poor Keogh must have been livid. "The moment my back is turned ...") Also great to see who the cholera victims were. And -- how interesting that they've listed Charles Johnson, the shot deserter, as "killed by Indians". Tact? A deliberate lie? Or just a clerical error? Thanks so much for posting this. It's great. Elisabeth, I don't know if you caught it but I posted the main URL over on the George Crook thread in the Books section. But to save you time, here is the main page. www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/special/military/toc.htmlSelect "Kansas" and then "Ft. Wallace" and look at page 301. The first names are the members of Lt. Kidder's party. Also on that page are two of the scouts in Forsyth's command who died from wounds at Ft. Wallace which were received at Beecher Island. P. 303, line 55 has the Germain family in one plot. Per Frazer's Forts of the West, Ft. Wallace was originally established as Camp Pond Creek in September, 1865 and redesignated Ft. Wallace on April 18, 1866. There may be some other deaths which occurred at Camp Pond Creek but I will have to look at the post records to find out for sure. Johnson? Hmmm, wonder if the intent was to sanitize GAC's reputation. Strangely enough, with all the deaths that occurred in the 7th Cav. for various reasons, there are only two soldiers who had the surname "Johnson." Charles as you noticed and Walter Johnson, Co. "E" killed in action with Indians nr. Bluff Creek, Kansas on October 2, 1868. Be good, Billy P.S. I will resend that file as I have updated it to include the LBH casualties for the 7th.
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Post by gary on May 17, 2006 8:02:25 GMT -6
Hi Diane, Elisabeth and Billy,
Thanks for the feedback.
There are two representations of Wyllyams body. The first to be published was not in fact Bell’s photograph, but an engraving published in Harper’s Weekly and reproduced in Bell’s account of his travels, 'New Tracks in North America'. Indeed, Bell’s photograph was not reproduced in his book at all. Instead, the author, or perhaps his publisher, preferred the less graphic engraving. The article in Harper’s Weekly describes the engraving as being made “from sketches by Major A. R. Calhoun and Dr. Bell”.
The photograph of Wyllyams’ body shows the sergeant lying on a patch of grass with what appear to be five arrows protruding from his torso. His injuries are clearly shown in the photograph.
The etching is clearly based upon the same image, but shown from a slightly different angle so that Wyllyams right arm obscures his genitals. The etching also shows six arrows sticking out of the victim. A closer examination of the photograph however reveals that a shadow on the right side of Wyllyams’ body might well be a sixth arrow viewed from a foreshortened angle.
On the face of it, the image is exactly what it purports to be. In Bell’s words, “a photograph of him, poor fellow, as he lay”. Bell tells us that Wyllyams “…lay dead beside his horse; …Horse and rider were stripped bare of trapping and clothes, while around them the trampled, blood-stained ground showed the desperation of the struggle”. The first thing that strikes the viewer of the photograph (and indeed the etching) however is that there is no horse shown in the picture. Further, there is no evidence of blood on the ground (although the photograph posted byDiane shows what could be blood - or simply marks on the negative) or trampled ground in the photograph.
There at least two potential answers to these questions. Firstly, it could be argued that the picture was taken from an angle which did not include the horse, even though it might have been lying nearby. Further, the photograph is not of first class quality; this might then explain why the blood stains and trampled earth cannot be seen. Perhaps the real answer can be found in Barnitz’s letter to his wife Jennie, written on 29th June 1867, three days after the fight (And reproduced in Utley 'Life in Custer's Cavalry').
Barnitz’s letter to his wife contains a good description of the skirmish, including the death of Wyllyams. Wyllyams was clearly known to Jennie Barnitz as Barnitz includes the comment that he was “..the one who fixed the tin protection to our stove pipe. –and who was such a gentlemanly soldier…”. More importantly, it throws some light upon the circumstance in which Bell took his photograph when he says:
“He also photographed the body of Serg’t Wyllyams, after it was brought to the post, just to show our friends in Washington, the Indian Agents, what fiends we have to deal with!”.
This little phrase seems to explain the queries highlighted above. The horse, the blood and the trampled ground are not shown in the photograph because it was taken at the post and not at the scene of the sergeant’s death. If this analysis is accurate, Bell did not brave the battlefield to photograph Wyllyams “as he lay”, but waited until the body was brought in to the post. Such an interpretation is consistent with not only Barnitz’s letter, but also some of the comments in Bell’s own account.
Prior to giving his description of Wyllyams’ corpse, Bell gives an outline of the fight. He states that at the outset of the skirmish, he and others rushed out of camp with their rifles towards a nearby ravine. On finding that there were no Indians in the ravine, they “…returned to breakfast, feeling it undesirable to go farther unprotected and alone”. He then tells of a two hour wait that was brought to an end by “…a horseman from the field of action, who came to get an ambulance for the dead and wounded”. At no time does he talk of travelling to the scene of the fight with his camera or medicine bag.
Assuming that the body was photographed at the post rather than on the battlefield, this raises further questions about exactly how this was actually done. It seems unlikely that the body would have been brought in with five or six arrows still sticking out of it (or without breaking the arrows). If so, were the arrows removed at the site of the killing and stuck back in the body at the fort for the benefit of the photographer? Quite a gruesome thought!
Gary
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Post by elisabeth on May 17, 2006 8:04:29 GMT -6
Lovely stuff. Thank you! Pond City looks like a dangerous place to be ...
According to Leo E. Oliva's Fort Wallace: Sentinel on the Smoky Hills Trail, in the Kansas Forts series, the original Camp Pond Creek was in a different position from the eventual Fort Wallace: "on the bluffs south of the river, across from and approximately two miles eat of Pond Creek Station". The new position was established by Captain Edward Ball and Co. H, 2nd Cavalry, on March 8th 1866. So maybe there was a cemetery at the original site that held any earlier burials?
The Johnson business does smell fishy, doesn't it. These records seem to be in the same handwriting throughout (at least on pp 301 & 302 -- haven't checked the others yet) so it's either some very long-serving clerk or adjutant, or a fair copy made at HQ; no evidence of any of Custer's cronies inserting that cause of death. Of course, if it is a fair copy, it could just be an error ... but that does seem unlikely. Hmmmm. The plot thickens.
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Post by markland on May 17, 2006 8:22:43 GMT -6
Lovely stuff. Thank you! Pond City looks like a dangerous place to be ... According to Leo E. Oliva's Fort Wallace: Sentinel on the Smoky Hills Trail, in the Kansas Forts series, the original Camp Pond Creek was in a different position from the eventual Fort Wallace: "on the bluffs south of the river, across from and approximately two miles eat of Pond Creek Station". The new position was established by Captain Edward Ball and Co. H, 2nd Cavalry, on March 8th 1866. So maybe there was a cemetery at the original site that held any earlier burials? The Johnson business does smell fishy, doesn't it. These records seem to be in the same handwriting throughout (at least on pp 301 & 302 -- haven't checked the others yet) so it's either some very long-serving clerk or adjutant, or a fair copy made at HQ; no evidence of any of Custer's cronies inserting that cause of death. Of course, if it is a fair copy, it could just be an error ... but that does seem unlikely. Hmmmm. The plot thickens. OK, sorry, I had brain-gas. These interment registers were copied, in most cases, from existing post records by the detachment sent to disinter the bodies. When the records did not exist or were patchy, they simply made an inventory of the cemetery. They still performed the inventory after copying the post records, see on p. 303 the note by Lt. Love (George Maltby) were he appends other graves found in the cemetery but not listed on the official records. Sorry to confuse you. Billy
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